TOPIC: Puzzle failure shouldn't take combat hitpoints

In short, being a Wizard in a Puzzle run is more deadly than a Combat run because of the unblockable 6 points of push damage.

Here's the situation: two brand new players are in my Puzzle game. I explain the different classes and they pick the two wizards. Nobody is stressed about losing the fights; that's why we are playing puzzle. But now the balance mechanic for combat (hitpoints) is the controlling factor of how much fun a player can have during the puzzles. Two or three puzzles kill a Wizard, but not a Fighter.

What if puzzle penalties were separate from combat penalties? Each group gets 3 strikes. Instead of six damage, you get a strike. That makes it so you need to solve the majority of the puzzles to win. Remember, if we cared overmuch about the combat and hitpoint systems, we'd be playing Combat mode.

Push/combat damage can be healed.
Druids/Paladins/clerics can heal damage you take.
So in the next room it can be healed.also
If you have potions or scrolls of healing other classes can be affected by them if you get class on the token to cast it on you

Well, yeah, but healing puzzle damage is still crossing over between puzzle and combat mechanics.

Failing a puzzle could make the next fight harder or something. Then the damage is happening in actual combat instead of magical puzzle damage.

This thread is certified half-baked. There's a good thought in it somewhere...

Hit points themselves are an abstraction used for a variety of purposes, not just combat. Even in D&D terms you could have an illness, fall in a pit, or touch something you shouldn't. For TD the abstraction is more akin to a player's stamina. When you aren't solving puzzles and instead force your way through them it takes its toll on the party.

Sometimes you have to just stand back and take the game for what it is.

Graham Smallwood wrote: Well, yeah, but healing puzzle damage is still crossing over between puzzle and combat mechanics.

Failing a puzzle could make the next fight harder or something. Then the damage is happening in actual combat instead of magical puzzle damage.

This thread is certified half-baked. There's a good thought in it somewhere...

most of the Dms even said(if you were listening)...time is up , you somehow managed to open the portal..in the process took 12 points of eldtrich damage

i dont get why you started this thread..you failed to solve the puzzle in time, the Dm gave you damage as punishment so you could move on to the next room

Graham Smallwood wrote: Well, yeah, but healing puzzle damage is still crossing over between puzzle and combat mechanics.

Failing a puzzle could make the next fight harder or something. Then the damage is happening in actual combat instead of magical puzzle damage.

This thread is certified half-baked. There's a good thought in it somewhere...

You are walking down a corridor. One of your party steps on hidden pressure plate. The floor opens and you fall into a pit filled with spikes. Everyone takes 6 damage.

You face a door with an elaborate lock. There are a series of runes you must press to open it. You don't press them correctly. The party is pelted by darts from above. Everyone takes 6 damage.

This is all standard D&D. Tricks and traps have always been a part of it.

Go look at the infamous Tomb of Horrors module for an extreme example.

Plenty of damage. Non combat damage

To reiterate what others have said more concisely

Taking damage from failing a puzzle has been a thing ever since the beginning of TD, and before that, since TD is inspired from DnD and other fantasy realms, many of which give out pain if you fail a puzzle or other non-combat challenge.

I understand this may be frustrating for a new player, but that's unfortunately just how the system works.

That being said, the chain room was especially brutal this year....most puzzles aren't that damage heavy

Harlax wrote:

Graham Smallwood wrote: Well, yeah, but healing puzzle damage is still crossing over between puzzle and combat mechanics.

Failing a puzzle could make the next fight harder or something. Then the damage is happening in actual combat instead of magical puzzle damage.

This thread is certified half-baked. There's a good thought in it somewhere...

You are walking down a corridor. One of your party steps on hidden pressure plate. The floor opens and you fall into a pit filled with spikes. Everyone takes 6 damage.

You face a door with an elaborate lock. There are a series of runes you must press to open it. You don't press them correctly. The party is pelted by darts from above. Everyone takes 6 damage.

This is all standard D&D. Tricks and traps have always been a part of it.

Go look at the infamous Tomb of Horrors module for an extreme example.

Plenty of damage. Non combat damage

Tomb of Horrors was awesome!

Graham Smallwood wrote: Well, yeah, but healing puzzle damage is still crossing over between puzzle and combat mechanics.

Failing a puzzle could make the next fight harder or something. Then the damage is happening in actual combat instead of magical puzzle damage.

This thread is certified half-baked. There's a good thought in it somewhere...

That would require ending a puzzle run on a combat or the penalty would be meaningless. I can tell you right now that puzzle player would hate that with a deep and abiding passion.

As an interesting side-note to this, our Wizard held the record for "earliest death" in True Dungeon for many years. I'm pretty sure in the very first year (although it could have been the second year), he played the Wizard. We failed the puzzle in the first room three times, and he took 6 damage. We then failed the puzzle in the second room three times, and he took another 6 damage, which killed him. It did lead to an interesting conversation with our Cleric on why he didn't heal the Wizard (our Cleric said that he asked if anyone needed healing and nobody responded). The staff were so sorry for our Wizard for having to be escorted out by Death in Room 2 that they gave him a free True Dungeon T-Shirt.

Adam Pillari wrote: To reiterate what others have said more concisely

Taking damage from failing a puzzle has been a thing ever since the beginning of TD, and before that, since TD is inspired from DnD and other fantasy realms, many of which give out pain if you fail a puzzle or other non-combat challenge.

I understand this may be frustrating for a new player, but that's unfortunately just how the system works.

That being said, the chain room was especially brutal this year....most puzzles aren't that damage heavy

I DMd the chain puzzle. I didn't think it was that damage heavy. Most groups that came through may have gotten damaged once/twice at the most, then learned not to let the chain hit the table. At least on Friday the success rate was pretty high.

Chris Von Wahlde wrote:

Adam Pillari wrote: To reiterate what others have said more concisely

Taking damage from failing a puzzle has been a thing ever since the beginning of TD, and before that, since TD is inspired from DnD and other fantasy realms, many of which give out pain if you fail a puzzle or other non-combat challenge.

I understand this may be frustrating for a new player, but that's unfortunately just how the system works.

That being said, the chain room was especially brutal this year....most puzzles aren't that damage heavy

I DMd the chain puzzle. I didn't think it was that damage heavy. Most groups that came through may have gotten damaged once/twice at the most, then learned not to let the chain hit the table. At least on Friday the success rate was pretty high.

Oh - wow - on our run (nightmare!) we were told by the dm straight up letting the chain hit the table would cause damage.

It would have been way harder if we had to figure that out based on oracular pronouncements that we all took damage for some reason.