TOPIC: The negative effects of running 10 CoA's

Rebeg wrote:

jedibcg wrote: I find unlikely the DM changed the rules, so it speak in this case. They probably just made a mistake. Still something that should be brought to the attention of an AC so it can be fixed, but just because DM didn't do what they were supposed to doesn't mean they did it on purpose.

The 50 damage is another story all together.

I know for a fact one DM actually did take it upon her self to change to rules as she felt.

I wont give names, or times to identify this person. But our party half of which were mostly new players decided to do our run on normal. She was giving out damage according to the nightmare level. When another DM pointed out she shouldn't be, I heard her say she didn't care and felt the damage at normal wasn't enough. This was on the BHM Puzzle run.

She also did a few other things I felt she shouldn't have. But won't go into it.

Please report the details to an AC when this kind of thing happens after your run - this helps ensure other people through the dungeon have a fun time.

No point in naming and shaming in the forums now, but you might contact an AC via PM so they can note this person for future scrutiny if they volunteer again.

Incognito wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: It is a bit troubling that you said you don't own 10 CoA, but have access to them. Did someone loan them to you? I think it's inappropriate for someone to loan loot tokens out for runs they aren't on. Jeff made that clear when people started talking about doing that with Horns of Plenty. Loot tokens should never be on runs without their owner. Unless the person has 20 CoA, 10 for their use and 10 for yours.

How do you define ownership?

Another thing which sometimes happens is that a group of players pool together their resources and "share" a token.

So in such a case, who "owns" that token. If 10 players pool together to create a Charm of Avarice, is it wrong or right for each of the 10 players to have access to it (especially if they do separate, individual runs)?

If for some reason you are unable to make GenCon, would it be proper for you to give your loot tokens to your friends who will be going?

(It is interesting that there is actually a precedent with Gertz's artifact. Although a group of players pooled together their GP, it is still soulbound to a single individual.)

I think it should it should follow the Gertz precedent, each loot token is soulbound to one person, and can only be used on runs that person is on. I think those are the ground rules for Horns of Plenty Jeff made way back when.

Coopman wrote:

jedibcg wrote: I find unlikely the DM changed the rules, so it speak in this case. They probably just made a mistake. Still something that should be brought to the attention of an AC so it can be fixed, but just because DM didn't do what they were supposed to doesn't mean they did it on purpose.

The 50 damage is another story all together.

Along the lines of it being an honest mistake...
Is it possible the DM said "Fifteen damage" and not "Fifty damage" and was heard incorrectly?

I know my old ears have a hard time hearing every detail in the dungeon.

Old ears?

Mike Steele wrote: I think it should it should follow the Gertz precedent, each loot token is soulbound to one person, and can only be used on runs that person is on. I think those are the ground rules for Horns of Plenty Jeff made way back when.

How would you be able to sell/trade them then?

Or do you just mean a general agreement that loot tokens should only be used on runs with their owners (not enforced via documentation)?

I believe tokens need to go through the dungeon, at least. Otherwise you could go from room to room lending 10 CoA and collect chips at the back end.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I think it should it should follow the Gertz precedent, each loot token is soulbound to one person, and can only be used on runs that person is on. I think those are the ground rules for Horns of Plenty Jeff made way back when.

How would you be able to sell/trade them then?

Or do you just mean a general agreement that loot tokens should only be used on runs with their owners (not enforced via documentation)?

I'd think it would be informal if possible, documented if that didn't work. I remember Jeff was thinking of writing your name on your HOP if voluntary didn't work.

The soulbound wouldn't be permanent, it would change if ownership of the token changed. Probably ownership shouldn't change during GENCON, that could easily be manipulated.

It is not unusual for a monster's stats (damage, AC, HP, etc.) to change, but it should only be done after a discussion among DMs and the ACs for that dungeon. A DM should not be doing it on his/her own.

Rebeg wrote: I wont give names, or times to identify this person.
{snip}
She also did a few other things I felt she shouldn't have. But won't go into it.

I strongly urge you to reconsider. You don't need to announce this person's name publicly, but please either PM an Adventure Coordinator and/or Jeff and let them know as many details as you can provide. If you don't, TPTB are hamstrung and cannot give any kind of counseling to ensure this person doesn't do that again.

Mike Steele wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: It is a bit troubling that you said you don't own 10 CoA, but have access to them. Did someone loan them to you? I think it's inappropriate for someone to loan loot tokens out for runs they aren't on. Jeff made that clear when people started talking about doing that with Horns of Plenty. Loot tokens should never be on runs without their owner. Unless the person has 20 CoA, 10 for their use and 10 for yours.

How do you define ownership?

Another thing which sometimes happens is that a group of players pool together their resources and "share" a token.

So in such a case, who "owns" that token. If 10 players pool together to create a Charm of Avarice, is it wrong or right for each of the 10 players to have access to it (especially if they do separate, individual runs)?

If for some reason you are unable to make GenCon, would it be proper for you to give your loot tokens to your friends who will be going?

(It is interesting that there is actually a precedent with Gertz's artifact. Although a group of players pooled together their GP, it is still soulbound to a single individual.)

I think it should it should follow the Gertz precedent, each loot token is soulbound to one person, and can only be used on runs that person is on. I think those are the ground rules for Horns of Plenty Jeff made way back when.

Uh, actually if you want to follow Artifact precedence, the Charms of Avarice would be soulbound to one person and only usable by that person (rather than being used on runs that person is on).

If Kubu and Smak are on the same run together, they aren't allowed to swap their artifacts (which would be permissible if the restriction was "only be used on runs that person is on"). Instead, only that particular person can even use it.

balthasar wrote: I believe tokens need to go through the dungeon, at least. Otherwise you could go from room to room lending 10 CoA and collect chips at the back end.

This.

Trying to track who owns the token is additional headache for an already hectic event.

There should be a double check for greed tokens, once in the Coaching room and once in the Epilogue room if "carry them through the dungeon" becomes an enforced thing.

Yes, I realize it would make Epliogue take longer.

balthasar wrote: I believe tokens need to go through the dungeon, at least. Otherwise you could go from room to room lending 10 CoA and collect chips at the back end.

As long as they don't physically actually have to go through the dungeon. I try to stash my bag of tokens before entering the dungeon because it is not fun to lug around little lone in a dungeon. By the end of Thrusday it had to be pushing 60lbs with all the treasure pulls getting dumped in there along we 12 character builds and a bunch of healing and maybe a kitchen sink.

I may have just given away the fact that checked in at baggage check there is often a bag that is worth easily 10 to 15 thousand dollars worth of tokens lucky you would not know which one it is....hmmm except that it says BC on the top of it....hmmm may have to change bags for next year.

jedibcg wrote:

balthasar wrote: I believe tokens need to go through the dungeon, at least. Otherwise you could go from room to room lending 10 CoA and collect chips at the back end.

As long as they don't physically actually have to go through the dungeon. I try to stash my bag of tokens before entering the dungeon because it is not fun to lug around little lone in a dungeon. By the end of Thrusday it had to be pushing 60lbs with all the treasure pulls getting dumped in there along we 12 character builds and a bunch of healing and maybe a kitchen sink.

I may have just given away the fact that checked in at baggage check there is often a bag that is worth easily 10 to 15 thousand dollars worth of tokens lucky you would not know which one it is....hmmm except that it says BC on the top of it....hmmm may have to change bags for next year.

Honestly I worry about stuff like this every time I hear about a pricey magic deck getting stolen. Guess were just lucky those elements haven't discovered how valuable tokens are yet.