TOPIC: It's time to eliminate the 3rd level player bonus

kurtreznor wrote:

Harlax wrote: I agree with Picc and Amorgen. As a trainer this year I saw some very experienced and skilled coaches go over the 24 minutes with much greater frequency than in the past. Let’s be very very careful about adding time consuming processes. (I will be coaching at Pax West and May be doing so at GHC)

You know something else that wastes time? Have two players 'discuss' which of them should get to play their preferred class.

If the players havent come to an agreement by the scheduled start time, rather than sit around waiting for them to decide, the coach should just have everyone roll off, and start choosing high to low.

Oh trust me, I've seen parties burn a lot of time discussing, even when the discussion is quite amicable.

What happens when you have a back to back run? Especially a run that you had to get else you would not get the tickets for the following? All this talk of being "late" assumes it was because the player was being irresponsible. The only time in my 12 year TD career I have seen this become a problem or possibility of rank/roll off was this year at Origins which was resolved quickly.

We were stuck outside over 20 minutes because of TD computer issues, not because of tardiness. Even though some of our group that was pre-planned in the forums came through and explained that we were coming and late because of this issue (and what classes) they were they given out to friends of another player. I see both sides here and can see the BS in both but it was very Three's Company in the end. If you are paying $80 a ticket and you get stuck with a class that you truly do not want or equipped to play you should be able to get a refund if you are not feeling it. Rank pull and roll off will always create hard feelings but this to me is not an issue.

It's time to eliminate a bigger problem of Vet players who "70's car salesmen" new players to borrow their Treasure Enhancers but want half the loot "because it's a good deal". It's really gross.

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: It's time to eliminate a bigger problem of Vet players who "70's car salesmen" new players to borrow their Treasure Enhancers but want half the loot "because it's a good deal". It's really gross.

Neither saying this is good or bad but can we have that discussion in a different thread? I do agree with your comment about time of arrival isn't always something the player can control.

jedibcg wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: It's time to eliminate a bigger problem of Vet players who "70's car salesmen" new players to borrow their Treasure Enhancers but want half the loot "because it's a good deal". It's really gross.

Neither saying this is good or bad but can we have that discussion in a different thread? I do agree with your comment about time of arrival isn't always something the player can control.

Absolutely, not trying to derail the thread but it's a double edge sword point as I see the latter too often and the topic very little, once to be exact. I usually have 7-12 runs per con for perspective.

While not my favorite I think the Dice Roll should stay as a necessary evil to settle hard differences. If we are talking about the "elitism" optics of Rank privilege maybe we should really rethink all of TD and remove all forms of it including Sub Class restrictions and L&L so anyone can see what is brewing. If we want to be consistent with this thought process make TD truly open so no one is left out. It's an honest question.

JACKOFTRADZE wrote:
Absolutely, not trying to derail the thread

but here are some other topics to let others derail the thread...lol.

JACKOFTRADZE wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: It's time to eliminate a bigger problem of Vet players who "70's car salesmen" new players to borrow their Treasure Enhancers but want half the loot "because it's a good deal". It's really gross.

Neither saying this is good or bad but can we have that discussion in a different thread? I do agree with your comment about time of arrival isn't always something the player can control.

Absolutely, not trying to derail the thread but it's a double edge sword point as I see the latter too often and the topic very little, once to be exact. I usually have 7-12 runs per con for perspective.

While not my favorite I think the Dice Roll should stay as a necessary evil to settle hard differences. If we are talking about the "elitism" optics of Rank privilege maybe we should really rethink all of TD and remove all forms of it including Sub Class restrictions and L&L so anyone can see what is brewing. If we want to be consistent with this thought process make TD truly open so no one is left out. It's an honest question.

Why stop there, Jeff and co should reviel the volunteer reviews, also all puzzles should now be designed by committee and reviewed by the forms prior to deployment in live dungeons, the forms themselves are also oppressive, we should do away with post counts as they make some voices seem more important then others (ps I'm being hyperbolic because I'm not sure if you are or not).

jedibcg wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote:
Absolutely, not trying to derail the thread

but here are some other topics to let others derail the thread...lol.

I think highly of other posters here and have faith that they can get the points I made, comment and stay on topic. Let's not get too rigid like a strict slide order group that melts if the sequence changes.

In spirit of staying on topic - Keep the Dice roll off as the last resort.

Picc wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: It's time to eliminate a bigger problem of Vet players who "70's car salesmen" new players to borrow their Treasure Enhancers but want half the loot "because it's a good deal". It's really gross.

Neither saying this is good or bad but can we have that discussion in a different thread? I do agree with your comment about time of arrival isn't always something the player can control.

Absolutely, not trying to derail the thread but it's a double edge sword point as I see the latter too often and the topic very little, once to be exact. I usually have 7-12 runs per con for perspective.

While not my favorite I think the Dice Roll should stay as a necessary evil to settle hard differences. If we are talking about the "elitism" optics of Rank privilege maybe we should really rethink all of TD and remove all forms of it including Sub Class restrictions and L&L so anyone can see what is brewing. If we want to be consistent with this thought process make TD truly open so no one is left out. It's an honest question.

Why stop there, Jeff and co should reviel the volunteer reviews, also all puzzles should now be designed by committee and reviewed by the forms prior to deployment in live dungeons, the forms themselves are also oppressive, we should do away with post counts as they make some voices seem more important then others (ps I'm being hyperbolic because I'm not sure if you are or not).

I take no offense from your post, found it funny and yes, I was being 100% serious to provoke a question worth asking as the topic of Class Rank being/coming off as Elitist with bad optics came up a few times in this thread. If we are going to do away with it why not be consistent if Elitism is a real concern? (BTW - I actually agree with your POV. Where do you draw the line and why single out just class rank?)

To stay on strict topic half of my 12 runs this year at GC were with some really awesome noobs, everyone was great about classes and flexible. This Rank issue is very low on the totem pole of problems to "fix" in my opinion.

Um, is it possible to just allow when the tickets are purchased to sign up for the class you want or just sign up for a general ticket if you have no preference?

So person A buys 3 tickets. One definitely wants cleric, the other two don't care. So person A buys ticket for cleric and 2 general admission tickets.

Person B looks at the run, looking for two tickets, sees that Cleric is taken but no other classes are. So he signs up to play Ranger and Paladin.

Person C looks and really wants to play Cleric, but sees that Cleric is already spoken for, so they go on and sign up for a different run.

This way there isn't any hard feeling, and players can walk in, with their ticket for Cleric and say, here you go, not wondering after getting their class set that there is going to be some form of contention.

This then takes away the anxiety that some players face getting into their room.

Mike Coon wrote: Um, is it possible to just allow when the tickets are purchased to sign up for the class you want or just sign up for a general ticket if you have no preference?

So person A buys 3 tickets. One definitely wants cleric, the other two don't care. So person A buys ticket for cleric and 2 general admission tickets.

Person B looks at the run, looking for two tickets, sees that Cleric is taken but no other classes are. So he signs up to play Ranger and Paladin.

Person C looks and really wants to play Cleric, but sees that Cleric is already spoken for, so they go on and sign up for a different run.

This way there isn't any hard feeling, and players can walk in, with their ticket for Cleric and say, here you go, not wondering after getting their class set that there is going to be some form of contention.

This then takes away the anxiety that some players face getting into their room.

This could possibly work at cons outside GC.

At GC, people will take literally any ticket they can get.

True Story time...

I was only able to get 2 of the 10 VIG tickets for E3 on Fri at 7:38 PM. I gave the second ticket to Mrs Laz. As the time was drawing nigh I was seriously thinking of backing out of this Run knowing I would know no one on this Run (besides Mrs Laz).

Usually I have no problem with running with strangers. But over the past couple years this has become an issue for me. Those that know me are probably confused by that. I am extroverted and outspoken. Those that really know me know my issue here.

I run Rybak the Dwarf Fighter. Rybak is rude, crude, an asshole, and just says whatever comes to mind without thinking of the consequences. That's Rybak. Yes, I am sort of like Rybak but Rybak takes it beyond another level of asshattery.

So... Mrs Laz and I get to the Coaching Room. Some person I have no idea who she is already has claimed the Dwarf Fighter. I don't like enforcing the 3rd Level Rule. I'm not a fan of it. So... I offered her $10 cash to let me run Rybak and explained I always and only run Rybak. She eventually conceded and didn't take my money. I wish she had because she told me: "just run the best Dwarf ever because that's what I do when I take the Dwarf Fighter."

After the First Room Mrs Laz and I soon discovered her definition of how the Dwarf Fighter should be best run and mine is a complete 180-degree.

I taunted 24-7. Rybak (as many that have run with him know) is also a huge proponent of Dwarf Tossing. He is also a hug flirt and loves the ladies and some dudes in the Dungeons. Although, he is rather crude about it... okay... very crude.

So this woman says to me after the first Room is done: "Don't do that. I don't care how you talk about yourself but don't talk like that to a woman again (the Room's NPC)."

OH... WTF?!? Seriously?!? Mrs Laz looked at her like she was nuts and I even asked the NPC if she had any issue with me. She didn't.

This is the type of idiots I attract. The "that person isn't offended but I am offended for them and I will force them to be offended even though they aren't but should be."

Needless to say Rybak was offended by her and decided to go all out for the rest of the 6 Rooms. It was classic.

So after we were done and I decided not to just call her a prude (she was way younger than me) and walk away this 60+ year old woman comes up to me in the Epilogue area and says I was awesome and totally made the Run for her. I couldn't thank her enough for the compliment.

Gawds!! I truly hate the easily offend-able.

Anyway...

The point of this is that I'd rather pay cash than invoke Level 3 Privilege.

Ro-gan wrote: True Story time...

I was only able to get 2 of the 10 VIG tickets for E3 on Fri at 7:38 PM. I gave the second ticket to Mrs Laz. As the time was drawing nigh I was seriously thinking of backing out of this Run knowing I would know no one on this Run (besides Mrs Laz).

Usually I have no problem with running with strangers. But over the past couple years this has become an issue for me. Those that know me are probably confused by that. I am extroverted and outspoken. Those that really know me know my issue here.

I run Rybak the Dwarf Fighter. Rybak is rude, crude, an asshole, and just says whatever comes to mind without thinking of the consequences. That's Rybak. Yes, I am sort of like Rybak but Rybak takes it beyond another level of asshattery.

So... Mrs Laz and I get to the Coaching Room. Some person I have no idea who she is already has claimed the Dwarf Fighter. I don't like enforcing the 3rd Level Rule. I'm not a fan of it. So... I offered her $10 cash to let me run Rybak and explained I always and only run Rybak. She eventually conceded and didn't take my money. I wish she had because she told me: "just run the best Dwarf ever because that's what I do when I take the Dwarf Fighter."

After the First Room Mrs Laz and I soon discovered her definition of how the Dwarf Fighter should be best run and mine is a complete 180-degree.

I taunted 24-7. Rybak (as many that have run with him know) is also a huge proponent of Dwarf Tossing. He is also a hug flirt and loves the ladies and some dudes in the Dungeons. Although, he is rather crude about it... okay... very crude.

So this woman says to me after the first Room is done: "Don't do that. I don't care how you talk about yourself but don't talk like that to a woman again (the Room's NPC)."

OH... WTF?!? Seriously?!? Mrs Laz looked at her like she was nuts and I even asked the NPC if she had any issue with me. She didn't.

This is the type of idiots I attract. The "that person isn't offended but I am offended for them and I will force them to be offended even though they aren't but should be."

Needless to say Rybak was offended by her and decided to go all out for the rest of the 6 Rooms. It was classic.

So after we were done and I decided not to just call her a prude (she was way younger than me) and walk away this 60+ year old woman comes up to me in the Epilogue area and says I was awesome and totally made the Run for her. I couldn't thank her enough for the compliment.

Gawds!! I truly hate the easily offend-able.

Anyway...

The point of this is that I'd rather pay cash than invoke Level 3 Privilege.

Rybak is great to run with. Enjoyed it at last years patron run at Origins.

Smart older lady.