TOPIC: It's time to eliminate the 3rd level player bonus

Guedoji wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Brokkr wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Guedoji wrote: The rules should state clearly and it should be stated on the event description at time of ticketing that all players are recommended to log in to the forum, work with others to coordinate their desired classes.

Then...

Players who coordinated get first pick (assuming they agreed). This would possibly give folks a chance to change runs if the group doesn't work out.

If it was not worked out between players on the forum...

Player who has class prebuilt with app gets first pick. (We should be promoting players for helping to save time).

This all assumes that player are on time.

If all else fails, roll off.

Worrying about being able to play my class has been a huge stresser for me. I mentioned previously that I haven't invoked the rule of 3, typically because my mom taught me to be kind and to share my toys... however... I drop a ton of money into TD and I would like a way to be sure I can use my tokens as many of them simply cant be used if I run another class. It makes me hesitate to buy more when I worry about this.

One other stress triggering moment in this thread. It was mentioned that some vets are running 15 runs? Maybe that was an exaggeration, but why are folks able to re-run a dungeon more than once or twice?

It is extremely difficult to coordinate the three runs for myself, my wife and a friend or two and this is likely a much bigger issue for new players. If they cant even get tickets how can we expect to grow the community. I'm often trying to bring new players to TD, but I've had plenty of times where I had to turn potential new players away because I simply cant coordinate more tickets. It's a little bothersome that folks are running that many runs when I'm telling friends I wasnt able to get them into 1 run with me.

I think giving first picks to people that used the App or that coordinated on the forums are both problematic, as they favor veterans over new players.

I have a hard time seeing how having people use an App or join the forums is problematic. Tickets go on sale months before the event which is plenty of time to make arrangements. Not reading the email or an unwillingness to create an account is squarely on the participant and shouldn't penalize those who have made an effort to do so.

Having people use the apps or join the forums isn't problematic, I think both are great. I'm also not saying people who do either or both should be penalized, I'm just saying I don't think that using an app or the forums should give them first pick of character classes. People who have pregenerated character sheets are rewarded with a bonus HP or two.

People using the forums all cooperated (teamwork as many suggested should be in place for TD) they should get first pick.

It would not be difficult for TD to put this in the email or on the event description and people really would have no room to complain if they didnt read.

Why would we not want to continue to reward folks with pre generated characters. Many have stated the difficulty and time consuming nature of recording more complexities, this seems like a logical next step.

I would have agreed with Guedoji before this last Gen Con, but after running in six PUGs this year, I totally disagree.

TD should be as accessible to a new audience as possible. Telling new participants that they must sign up for an account (that they probably don't want) then do a bunch of homework on the 12 TD classes is IMHO, unreasonable.

After signing up, reading on classes, the newbie would have to make his/her way onto Andrew Knoll's group listing and learn how that works.

It all runs in the face of the actual listing:



At the end of the day, either will a way to buy 10 tickets together or join another group that has spare spots in their 10 run. Just because we're all accustomed to the forums doesn't mean it isn't daunting to a new audience.

Arnold wrote:
I would have agreed with Guedoji before this last Gen Con, but after running in six PUGs this year, I totally disagree.

TD should be as accessible to a new audience as possible. Telling new participants that they must sign up for an account (that they probably don't want) then do a bunch of homework on the 12 TD classes is IMHO, unreasonable.

After signing up, reading on classes, the newbie would have to make his/her way onto Andrew Knoll's group listing and learn how that works.

It all runs in the face of the actual listing:



At the end of the day, either will a way to buy 10 tickets together or join another group that has spare spots in their 10 run. Just because we're all accustomed to the forums doesn't mean it isn't daunting to a new audience.

Why is it less daunting to do it in the 24 minutes before the run than at the leisure of the player several weeks before a con?

Brokkr wrote:

Arnold wrote:
I would have agreed with Guedoji before this last Gen Con, but after running in six PUGs this year, I totally disagree.

TD should be as accessible to a new audience as possible. Telling new participants that they must sign up for an account (that they probably don't want) then do a bunch of homework on the 12 TD classes is IMHO, unreasonable.

After signing up, reading on classes, the newbie would have to make his/her way onto Andrew Knoll's group listing and learn how that works.

It all runs in the face of the actual listing:



At the end of the day, either will a way to buy 10 tickets together or join another group that has spare spots in their 10 run. Just because we're all accustomed to the forums doesn't mean it isn't daunting to a new audience.

Why is it less daunting to do it in the 24 minutes before the run than at the leisure of the player several weeks before a con?

It's the requirement of having an obligation beforehand that is the sticking point.

LOL using the app or forums get first pick is just the exact same problem as letting 3rd level and higher player get the 'bonus', it is just a different subset of players.

Whatever is or isn't decided for choosing. I think we all can agree hopefully, that better instructions on how picking characters decide should be able to all players be they new, vets, early arrivals, late arrivals, with apps or without. If everyone knows the 'rules' it is less likely to be issues.

Brokkr wrote: Why is it less daunting to do it in the 24 minutes before the run than at the leisure of the player several weeks before a con?

The onus should be on the veteran to secure a run where he/she can guarantee his/her preferred class, not on the newbie.

Experience Required: None

No experience is required to create a forum account or use the app. The player is still free to show up with out doing either.

For Origins 2019, I was by myself, so I made zero effort to buy tickets and hopped on forum runs. I got in one of each dungeon at the level I wanted to play at and at times that worked out fairly well. I ended up playing the classes I wanted to play, as well, but, then, I don't have strong preferences for classes anymore.

Before moving on to Gen Con, I would note that Origins is a much harder scheduling problem for me even though I spend more time in Columbus and generally game less than GC. This is because the two reasons I go to Origins for run events at the same time and TD doesn't start early on Thursday. TD is my second priority, so Friday and Saturday I already have 8 hour commitments.

Gen Con, we tried to buy out one run of each dungeon (we should have tried for a second run of E3). We got one run. I ended up on six at GC and my friend who had even more time than I did seven. I played two of each dungeon at GC. If anything, the runs should have had more commitment from players as to who was playing what ahead of time, including the run we hosted - in other words, lots of us are wishy-washy about what classes we want to play. I use an app and still waste lots of time with adjusting builds during coaching time because I didn't know what classes our group were playing ahead of time or what difficulty was being played.

The reality is that there's a lot of organization to enable forumites to do what they want. Andrew's efforts are a massive part of this. Even when you need a lot of tickets, like more than half a run for a group, can do what various people did this year and buy out a full run from another forumite who didn't need a run or whatever. Two of the runs I ended up on were ones that started out with pretty much nobody committed.

Sure, a lot of LFM runs popped open close to GC rather than a month out, but that should give some reassurance that it's very possible to end up doing what you want.

Brokkr wrote: No experience is required to create a forum account or use the app. The player is still free to show up with out doing either.

Reminds me of an rpg I signed up for at GenCon. I showed up and GM expected me to have a character in an online application. GM said email was sent out. What email since I expected event lisrings to define everything I need to do. No cost either. Delayed the game for 15 minutes for everybody. That would be an issue for TD since they have a schedule to maintain.

edwin wrote:

Brokkr wrote: No experience is required to create a forum account or use the app. The player is still free to show up with out doing either.

Reminds me of an rpg I signed up for at GenCon. I showed up and GM expected me to have a character in an online application. GM said email was sent out. What email since I expected event lisrings to define everything I need to do. No cost either. Delayed the game for 15 minutes for everybody. That would be an issue for TD since they have a schedule to maintain.

This is why the coaching room is 24 mins already.

I disagree. Not all vets can afford to buy out a full run, frankly, that's ridiculous. A new player should not get priority over an existing player.

All players would have equal chance to discuss on the forums. The new player would have every opportunity to do exactly what the vet player is doing, if they ignore it then they get what's left, same with vets that don't bother to plan ahead.

Arnold wrote:

Brokkr wrote: Why is it less daunting to do it in the 24 minutes before the run than at the leisure of the player several weeks before a con?

The onus should be on the veteran to secure a run where he/she can guarantee his/her preferred class, not on the newbie.

Experience Required: None

No it wouldn't, it would be exactly as is today except the people who did listen to the requirements are ready to go and the person who didnt has time to pick a remaining class with help of the coach and the other players. This would in no way cause a delay.

Milambus (Jake) wrote:

edwin wrote:

Brokkr wrote: No experience is required to create a forum account or use the app. The player is still free to show up with out doing either.

Reminds me of an rpg I signed up for at GenCon. I showed up and GM expected me to have a character in an online application. GM said email was sent out. What email since I expected event lisrings to define everything I need to do. No cost either. Delayed the game for 15 minutes for everybody. That would be an issue for TD since they have a schedule to maintain.

This is why the coaching room is 24 mins already.

12 minutes to select and ready characters and 12 minutes to record on party card.