TOPIC: Feedback on Rules Clarification

valetutto wrote:
Under the current rules many of the items you mention we assume (perhaps incorrectly) that they are out and ready already. To take one of your examples
Greater Mistletoe doesn't have a hands icon so it can't be equipped. If it has to be ready'd using a free action druids would have to decide if they want to the +1 damage or a free action use that round.

That is why I am asking. Under the current rules I figured it was something that just was applied automatically like other spell boosters. You don't have to activate them, but they are not slotless. So does making it slotless mean that it needs to be activated in the current rules? The token db doesn't say anything to the affect..

Adds +1 Damage to all successful damage-inflicting spells cast by druids. This is a permanent item. Multiple copies do not stack.

If a spell under the influence of Greater Mistletoe can affect more than one target, only one victim gets the extra damage. E.g., if the druid casts a spell that deals 2 damage to all monsters, only one of the monsters would take an extra point of damage. The druid chooses the recipient of the extra point of damage.

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for the feedback everyone. Good stuff!

What I would like now is for you guys to tell me how you now perceive things are done with regard to free and standard actions. Please give me examples of pretty normal sequences that most players would use, and then the "best sleazes" you can pull to make the most of your round using certain tokens.

And also, in events like True Grind, do they allow you to prep something with a free action for use in the next round? Like "Hey, I did my standard attack, and now I am using my free action to swap to a missiles weapon that I'll use next round -- allowing me to have a free action at the end of the second round I can use for something else."

Finally, I am open to having different (more complicated) rules for True Grind if that is what it takes to have easy rules for most DMs and players during the adventures, and more combat-oriented (complicated) rules for True Grind.

Thanks for the feedback!

I do use free actions across rounds in grind and elsewhere, although I generally don't communicate it with the DM.

You can see free actions setting up standard actions in scenario 4 with a cleric or Druid that is not using a baton of focus and so has to spend free actions between casting and melee. Without round spanning stuff I'm not sure this build can melee attack, then cast divine sight doubled healing, then melee attack in 3 rounds.

Current scenarios, this is all stuff I assumed worked....

Scenario 1 - wizard:
R1 sa - cast a spell, apply spell dust
R1 fa - cast a spell with cabal set bonus, apply spell dust
R2 sa - cast a spell, apply spell dust
R2 fa - drink a potion with pouch of Tulz
R3 sa - cast a spell, apply spell dust
R3 fa - fire a wand with medallion of mystic mouth
R4 sa and fa - read 2 scrolls with lenses of sage speed, both buffed by arcane scroll tube
R5 sa - cast a spell, apply spell dust
R5 fa - cast a spell with Ring of Spell Storing, apply spell dust
R6 fa - Drink polymorph potion from Shirt of the Fae
R6 sa - Melee attack

Scenario 2 - ranger, monk:
R1 fa - drink potion bulls strength with pouch of Tulz
R1 sa - melee attack
R2 fa - switch to ranged weapon
R2 sa - ranged attack, use ammunition

Scenario 3 - bard:
R1 sa - bardsong and melee attack with Widseths Mystical Lute
R1 fa - scroll with shield of the scholar, modified by greater arcane scroll tube
R2 fa - switch to briano's blessed bodhran
R2 sa - bardsong and cast a spell with
Brianos

Scenario 4 - cleric:
R1 sa - melee attack
R1 fa - empty hands for spell casting next round
R2 sa - cast a healing spell
R2 fa - activate lenses of divine sight
R3 fa - get melee weapon back in hands
R3 fa - melee attack

Scenario 5 - figurine use (any class)
R1 sa - melee attack
R1 fa - use figurine of power
R2 sa - melee attack
R2 fa - during potion with belt of retrieval

Sleeze department below!

Sleeze 1 Facing down ray attacks:

R1 sa - attack with 2 handed melee weapon
R1 fa - equip Shield of the Prism
Now I can negate first ray attack
R2 fa - equip my 2 handed melee weapon
R2 sa - attack

I can alternate back and fourth here atracking with a 2 handed melee weapon each round and being equipped with a shield every other monster attack round.

Sleaze 2 - prepping potions conditionally

R1 sa - melee attack
R1 fa - ready healing potion

Now, if I get hit and need to heal in R2 I can drink, or, I can FA my weapon back to my hands and attack instead.

This pattern applies to everything, you can melee attack every round and use your FAs to ready something your might use instead every other round (healing item, etc.)

I always assumed Figurines were reactions. I never thought they required a Free Action because you use (most of) them on the monsters’ turn

valetutto wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for the feedback everyone. Good stuff!

And also, in events like True Grind, do they allow you to prep something with a free action for use in the next round? Like "Hey, I did my standard attack, and now I am using my free action to swap to a missiles weapon that I'll use next round -- allowing me to have a free action at the end of the second round I can use for something else."

Thanks for the feedback!

All DM's i've encountered to date have allowed swapping to missiles or melee as you've described above.
In fact I didn't know you couldn't do it until this thread.

Is this referring to combat in general or just grind?

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for the feedback everyone. Good stuff!

What I would like now is for you guys to tell me how you now perceive things are done with regard to free and standard actions. Please give me examples of pretty normal sequences that most players would use, and then the "best sleazes" you can pull to make the most of your round using certain tokens.

And also, in events like True Grind, do they allow you to prep something with a free action for use in the next round? Like "Hey, I did my standard attack, and now I am using my free action to swap to a missiles weapon that I'll use next round -- allowing me to have a free action at the end of the second round I can use for something else."

Finally, I am open to having different (more complicated) rules for True Grind if that is what it takes to have easy rules for most DMs and players during the adventures, and more combat-oriented (complicated) rules for True Grind.

Thanks for the feedback!

I do use free actions across rounds in grind and elsewhere, although I generally don't communicate it with the DM.

You can see free actions setting up standard actions in scenario 4 with a cleric or Druid that is not using a baton of focus and so has to spend free actions between casting and melee. Without round spanning stuff I'm not sure this build can melee attack, then cast divine sight doubled healing, then melee attack in 3 rounds.

Current scenarios, this is all stuff I assumed worked....

Scenario 1 - wizard:
R1 sa - cast a spell, apply spell dust
R1 fa - cast a spell with cabal set bonus, apply spell dust
R2 sa - cast a spell, apply spell dust
R2 fa - drink a potion with pouch of Tulz
R3 sa - cast a spell, apply spell dust
R3 fa - fire a wand with medallion of mystic mouth
R4 sa and fa - read 2 scrolls with lenses of sage speed, both buffed by arcane scroll tube

Scenario 2 - ranger, monk:
R1 fa - drink potion bulls strength with pouch of Tulz
R1 sa - melee attack
R2 fa - switch to ranged weapon
R2 sa - ranged attack, use ammunition

Scenario 3 - bard:
R1 sa - bardsong and melee attack with Widseths Mystical Lute
R1 fa - scroll with shield of the scholar, modified by greater arcane scroll tube
R2 fa - switch to briano's blessed bodhran
R2 sa - bardsong and cast a spell with
Brianos

Scenario 4 - cleric:
R1 sa - melee attack
R1 fa - empty hands for spell casting next round
R2 sa - cast a healing spell
R2 fa - activate lenses of divine sight
R3 fa - get melee weapon back in hands
R3 fa - melee attack

Scenario 5 - figurine use (any class)
R1 sa - melee attack
R1 fa - use figurine of power
R2 sa - melee attack
R2 fa - during potion with belt of retrieval

Sleeze department below!

Sleeze 1 Facing down ray attacks:

R1 sa - attack with 2 handed melee weapon
R1 fa - equip Shield of the Prism
Now I can negate first ray attack
R2 fa - equip my 2 handed melee weapon
R2 sa - attack

I can alternate back and fourth here atracking with a 2 handed melee weapon each round and being equipped with a shield every other monster attack round.

Sleaze 2 - prepping potions conditionally

R1 sa - melee attack
R1 fa - ready healing potion

Now, if I get hit and need to heal in R2 I can drink, or, I can FA my weapon back to my hands and attack instead.

This pattern applies to everything, you can melee attack every round and use your FAs to ready something your might use instead every other round (healing item, etc.)

For your cleric you can cast with the Baton in your hand so if you are using that why would you need to burn your actions to swap weapons you can just cast with it ?

James J Krot wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for the feedback everyone. Good stuff!

What I would like now is for you guys to tell me how you now perceive things are done with regard to free and standard actions. Please give me examples of pretty normal sequences that most players would use, and then the "best sleazes" you can pull to make the most of your round using certain tokens.

And also, in events like True Grind, do they allow you to prep something with a free action for use in the next round? Like "Hey, I did my standard attack, and now I am using my free action to swap to a missiles weapon that I'll use next round -- allowing me to have a free action at the end of the second round I can use for something else."

Finally, I am open to having different (more complicated) rules for True Grind if that is what it takes to have easy rules for most DMs and players during the adventures, and more combat-oriented (complicated) rules for True Grind.

Thanks for the feedback!

I do use free actions across rounds in grind and elsewhere, although I generally don't communicate it with the DM.

You can see free actions setting up standard actions in scenario 4 with a cleric or Druid that is not using a baton of focus and so has to spend free actions between casting and melee. Without round spanning stuff I'm not sure this build can melee attack, then cast divine sight doubled healing, then melee attack in 3 rounds.

Current scenarios, this is all stuff I assumed worked....

Scenario 1 - wizard:
R1 sa - cast a spell, apply spell dust
R1 fa - cast a spell with cabal set bonus, apply spell dust
R2 sa - cast a spell, apply spell dust
R2 fa - drink a potion with pouch of Tulz
R3 sa - cast a spell, apply spell dust
R3 fa - fire a wand with medallion of mystic mouth
R4 sa and fa - read 2 scrolls with lenses of sage speed, both buffed by arcane scroll tube

Scenario 2 - ranger, monk:
R1 fa - drink potion bulls strength with pouch of Tulz
R1 sa - melee attack
R2 fa - switch to ranged weapon
R2 sa - ranged attack, use ammunition

Scenario 3 - bard:
R1 sa - bardsong and melee attack with Widseths Mystical Lute
R1 fa - scroll with shield of the scholar, modified by greater arcane scroll tube
R2 fa - switch to briano's blessed bodhran
R2 sa - bardsong and cast a spell with
Brianos

Scenario 4 - cleric:
R1 sa - melee attack
R1 fa - empty hands for spell casting next round
R2 sa - cast a healing spell
R2 fa - activate lenses of divine sight
R3 fa - get melee weapon back in hands
R3 fa - melee attack

Scenario 5 - figurine use (any class)
R1 sa - melee attack
R1 fa - use figurine of power
R2 sa - melee attack
R2 fa - during potion with belt of retrieval

Sleeze department below!

Sleeze 1 Facing down ray attacks:

R1 sa - attack with 2 handed melee weapon
R1 fa - equip Shield of the Prism
Now I can negate first ray attack
R2 fa - equip my 2 handed melee weapon
R2 sa - attack

I can alternate back and fourth here atracking with a 2 handed melee weapon each round and being equipped with a shield every other monster attack round.

Sleaze 2 - prepping potions conditionally

R1 sa - melee attack
R1 fa - ready healing potion

Now, if I get hit and need to heal in R2 I can drink, or, I can FA my weapon back to my hands and attack instead.

This pattern applies to everything, you can melee attack every round and use your FAs to ready something your might use instead every other round (healing item, etc.)

For your cleric you can cast with the Baton in your hand so if you are using that why would you need to burn your actions to swap weapons you can just cast with it ?

I'm explicitly positing a cleric without a Baton to show how I might want to set up my hands on turn X to do something on turn X+1.

Brad Mortensen wrote: I always assumed Figurines were reactions. I never thought they required a Free Action because you use (most of) them on the monsters’ turn

I just went through token DB.com and most of the figurines have some sort of language stating that they are instantaneous or don’t require a free action except for Phoenix which specifically states it requires a free action

Bob Chasan wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: I always assumed Figurines were reactions. I never thought they required a Free Action because you use (most of) them on the monsters’ turn

I just went through token DB.com and most of the figurines have some sort of language stating that they are instantaneous or don’t require a free action except for Phoenix which specifically states it requires a free action

Figurine of power spider?

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Bob Chasan wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: I always assumed Figurines were reactions. I never thought they required a Free Action because you use (most of) them on the monsters’ turn

I just went through token DB.com and most of the figurines have some sort of language stating that they are instantaneous or don’t require a free action except for Phoenix which specifically states it requires a free action

Figurine of power spider?

You are absolutely right. On my phone when I’m looking at the list of figurines of power it shows the first paragraph and I have to dig in to see if it has more information and I did not see that one

The thought that Lenses of Divine Sight or Greater Mistletoe require a FA to activate was news to me.

Harlax wrote: The thought that Lenses of Divine Sight or Greater Mistletoe require a FA to activate was news to me.

LoDS have required a FA since June of 2016. www.truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=5&id=243107&start=48#252437

Greater Mistletoe I don't think has been clarified yet.

I would guess that the new ruling is a result of Horns (Horn of the Blessed Ox).

It also clarifies issues with the Horn of Blasting, Minotaur Horn of Alert, Lamp of the Efreeti/Marid.

It does make the Horn of the Valkyrie worse. That already requires a Standard Action and now you might need to ready it to.

My main concerns:

1. There are a ridiculous number of slotless items and it will be confusing which ones need to be readied and which ones don't

2. Moving certain items to Instantaneous actions may lead to power creep by essentially allowing players to do a third action each round (Standard + Free + Instantaneous).

To Jeff: Don't worry too much about Grind. I can always make rules adjustments (and in your response you gave your blessing for some slight Grind variances if necessary).