TOPIC: Official Statement on Treasure Enhancers

Wade Schwendemann wrote: My opinion
I don't see why it makes any difference who holds the tokens during the run. If one person has 10 CoA and outfits the entire party, let them show the coach, show the epilogue room. 10 ISSN, same thing.
The party still has them, whether or not an individual carries them or 10 individuals carry them.

I can only imagine why this is. I think it is much easier for a person holding on to all the tokens in a coin holder or whatever can pass them around much easier than one person trying to collect them back from 9 other people passing them around and then distributing them back to the whole party in a timely fashion. It will definitely make it much harder to accomplish the things that are happening now. I think this is a great move on TD's part and I agree and support their decision.

maybe a possible work around????

He or She who is holding all the TEs, goes to the front of the line (where all 4 of the dungeons epilogue peeps can see)
they stand there until the last person in their group goes through...this stops the handing off of TEs because they will be watched and have to wait until end...so they will be seen leaving

This stops the chance of "friends" losing tokens

maybe it can be refined a little more, but its a start

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: maybe a possible work around????

He or She who is holding all the TEs, goes to the front of the line (where all 4 of the dungeons epilogue peeps can see)
they stand there until the last person in their group goes through...this stops the handing off of TEs because they will be watched and have to wait until end...so they will be seen leaving

This stops the chance of "friends" losing tokens

maybe it can be refined a little more, but its a start

That would certainly be more in line with Druegar's second consideration: The retention method needs to be quick.

Mike Steele wrote:

Beertram wrote:

Raven wrote: Piggybacking on Arcanist's concerns....

* I have teenagers with (clinically diagnosed) ADHD. I would never give them a token worth $1000 and expect them to keep it on their person for a 2-hour period - particularly not a 2 hour adventure full of excitement, distraction, reaching in and out of pockets, kneeling, crawling, examining, and changing rooms every 12 minutes. My kids don't come to True Dungeon (yet) but still....

* I know other people take their (young) children through the dungeon with them, and would not expect a parent to give their child that degree of responsibility.

* I know other adults with ADHD who accompany their friends through the dungeon and constantly have to be reminded to bring their backpack from room to room. Some of these adults are spouses of people who carry high value TEs.

While I comprehend the reasoning behind having each player physically present their tokens, and each token being physically handled* I question whether it is necessary or advisable to demand that tokens travel through the dungeon with their user - so long as they can be quickly dispersed among the party for inspection when required. Plus, it's difficult to police this. What is to prevent people from collecting TEs in between the dungeon hallways, and redistributing them just prior to Epilogue?


Having said that, I understand the need for these rule changes, and will attempt to comply to the best of my ability.

Thanks for doing your best to find a workable solution, Jeff.



*sniff* goodbye securely taped TE token holders. I guess I'll have to find some other method of storage which allows for easy removal of tokens in Coaching and Epilogue.

As for children, I think it would be best to put the TE's in their starter pack bag and tightly secure it to the child's clothes with large safety pins or the like. And for very small children I hope the parents will be allowed to carry these potential choking hazards.

For very small children that could choke on these - maybe they are too young to be participating in True Dungeon?

Well you can shake your cane at these young whippersnappers to stay out of your yard, but I think some of these well-behaved youth add a lot of joy and wonder to True Dungeon.

Baby-bard, you rock!!!

If the problem is people lending valuable tokens to others, just like the forgeries we had a few years ago, the easiest solution is to individually number the valuable tokens, and take note of which numbered token goes to which player. Once this is established a list can be generated and the list can be updated if trades occur. The listing can be codified onto a sheet of paper and provided to all relevant epilogue room volunteers. Players can then verify their identity with a driver's license or something similar as necessary.

I seriously dislike the idea of removing our valuable tokens from the security of our token books for the duration of a dungeon so that the twerps who fake or dispense tokens can be thwarted - and yes, you know who you are.
There are too many overtired volunteers, or worse, those that don't care if strangers lose their extremely valuable tokens.

Like Kolixela said, should we somehow lose a valuable token like a charm of avarice in the dungeon because of an inefficient and counterproductive rule, we will not be pleased. The result will be rage and frustration.

Disbeeleaf wrote: The result will be rage and frustration.

Well - that's a given anytime we talk about TEs

It certainly doesn't apply to my group in terms of simply taking about TE's, it's about possibly losing extremely valuable tokens for silly reasons.

Jeff - you should have had token forgers prosecuted when it happened a few years ago - whether they were big token buyers or not, and with respect to token sharers, which is a much lighter offense, it seems reasonable to provide fair warning and then permanently ban from TD those that persist in the offense.

Disbeeleaf wrote: It certainly doesn't apply to my group in terms of simply taking about TE's, it's about possibly losing extremely valuable tokens for silly reasons.

Jeff - you should have had token forgers prosecuted when it happened a few years ago - whether they were big token buyers or not, and with respect to token sharers, which is a much lighter offense, it seems reasonable to provide fair warning and then permanently ban from TD those that persist in the offense.

It's not about the possibility of losing expensive tokens. It's about stopping people from taking advantage of the current system.

Disbeeleaf wrote: It certainly doesn't apply to my group in terms of simply taking about TE's, it's about possibly losing extremely valuable tokens for silly reasons.

Jeff - you should have had token forgers prosecuted when it happened a few years ago - whether they were big token buyers or not, and with respect to token sharers, which is a much lighter offense, it seems reasonable to provide fair warning and then permanently ban from TD those that persist in the offense.

Define "token sharer." If you mean people pretending one token is on multiple simultaneous runs, that's the same as counterfeiting, and I agree.

But there has been no rule saying you must hold title to every token you equip, or even a hint that it was an issue, until this year. Unless it was very subtle or I was particularly thick.

You are right that it is about stopping people from taking advantage, but there are much better ways to do that than what has been suggested with respect to removing tokens from secure storage during a dungeon run. Our group has many valuable tokens in our possession and removing them from the security of token books is a counterproductive and risky idea.

FirstGladiator wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: My opinion
I don't see why it makes any difference who holds the tokens during the run. If one person has 10 CoA and outfits the entire party, let them show the coach, show the epilogue room. 10 ISSN, same thing.
The party still has them, whether or not an individual carries them or 10 individuals carry them.

I can only imagine why this is. I think it is much easier for a person holding on to all the tokens in a coin holder or whatever can pass them around much easier than one person trying to collect them back from 9 other people passing them around and then distributing them back to the whole party in a timely fashion. It will definitely make it much harder to accomplish the things that are happening now. I think this is a great move on TD's part and I agree and support their decision.

I agree with this. Having a book of TE's is much easier to pass on to others. And I completely support TPTB's decision to have each person physically hold on to the TE's they are running with for the entire length of the run. I believe Jeff's ultimate goal in doing this is to stop the casual lending of TE's, even to people in their own group. Because people that lend out 9 CoA's to other players, even their own friends/family usually still wind up keeping all the treasure for themselves after the run is over. Which is farming in a way. From the comments I'm seeing on this thread it appears Jeff might be successful in curbing lending if this policy holds. And if someone is really worried about a person(s) in their group losing one of the TE's that they lent to him/her then I have a very simple solution. Don't lend it to the person in the first place. Suggest that they get their own TE's. Problem solved.

I think you have the idea on what I meant by "token sharer".

I agree. I never heard of it until recently either.