TOPIC: Official Statement on Treasure Enhancers

jedibcg wrote: Only one question based upon the example you provided.

When it comes time to hand out Treasure/Completion Tokens/Pins in the epilogue room can Monty go first? This would allow Monty to collect (after seen by epilogue volunteer) his TE from those that he lent to ensure they do not walk off with them if he is further back in the line waiting to show his?

My personal opinion is that priority should go to:

1. Individuals with an EMERGENCY situation that really need to get out of there.

2. TD volunteers who need to head off to their volunteer shift.

3. Players who need to head off to a following run (e.g. back-to-back runs)

4. Individual and smaller groups of players

5. The Monty that is lending TE's

6. Monty's followers


So if there is a group of 7 players led by Monty, a singleton, and then a pair, you should let the singleton and pair go first. Followed by Monty and his/her 6 followers.

While it's a bit disappointing that it has come to this, I appreciate the issue being tackled head on - this isn't an easy one.


I'm a bit saddened because one of the reason I got 10 of each TE was to loan them out to the people I run with - who sometimes are friends and family, and sometimes are complete strangers. In the case of strangers, I found this gesture builds instant camaraderie and makes me feel like Santa.


On the other hand, I was never a fan of the "wheeling and dealing" with TEs that some players like to do with strangers in the coaching room, and I imagine this ruling will curtail that significantly.


So - all in all this strikes me as a good, if unfortunately necessary, ruling given the current state of affairs.



I do have one question about ghosting:

Suppose Monty has bought out a run, and finds 5 people to go with them.

The party has 5 players, 5 ghost slots, and Monty has 10 CoA.

Monty hands out 4 CoA to the other 4 players.

Does Monty hang onto 6 CoA for ghosts?

If yes - how does the person in the epilogue room know to check Monty for 6 CoA?

If this is also the end of ghosting with TEs, please let us know .

Incognito wrote:

jedibcg wrote: Only one question based upon the example you provided.

When it comes time to hand out Treasure/Completion Tokens/Pins in the epilogue room can Monty go first? This would allow Monty to collect (after seen by epilogue volunteer) his TE from those that he lent to ensure they do not walk off with them if he is further back in the line waiting to show his?

My personal opinion is that priority should go to:

1. Individuals with an EMERGENCY situation that really need to get out of there.

2. TD volunteers who need to head off to their volunteer shift.

3. Players who need to head off to a following run (e.g. back-to-back runs)

4. Individual and smaller groups of players

5. The Monty that is lending TE's

6. Monty's followers


So if there is a group of 7 players led by Monty, a singleton, and then a pair, you should let the singleton and pair go first. Followed by Monty and his/her 6 followers.

I would be more than happy to live with that. My concern is epilogue room folks going in alphabetic or reverse alphabetical and Monty playing something in the middle. As long as party can decide the order vs the epilogue room person because they will not know anything about the group to determine the order.

Matthew Hayward wrote: I do have one question about ghosting:


... how does the person in the epilogue room know to check Monty for 6 CoA?

Per ghosting rules, Monty is wearing six wristbands.

I have two concerns:
Coaching room - getting all 10 players to place TE tokens at top of mat at the same time AND the coach having time to verify/calculate treasure. When will this happen? You cant do it first because some players might be running late. If it waits until the end, you risk not having time for it at all.

Epilogue - i still think it is necessary to have a checkpoint in epilogue. Only players exiting room 7 are allowed in the first half of the epilogue room. One at a time Move into the checkpoint area, get TE varified, get treasure, then move on and you cannot go back.

kurtreznor wrote: I have two concerns:
Coaching room - getting all 10 players to place TE tokens at top of mat at the same time AND the coach having time to verify/calculate treasure. When will this happen? You cant do it first because some players might be running late. If it waits until the end, you risk not having time for it at all.

Epilogue - i still think it is necessary to have a checkpoint in epilogue. Only players exiting room 7 are allowed in the first half of the epilogue room. One at a time Move into the checkpoint area, get TE varified, get treasure, then move on and you cannot go back.

I agree about the checkpoint in the Epilogue room. Otherwise you are essentially doing what was tried at TDC, and that didn't work. I'm also wondering what is stopping someone from handing off their tokens to someone else after the check in the coaching area. A firm checkbook in a restricted area in the Epilogue room could prevent that.

Thank you for the ruling, Jeff. If the goal is to prevent casual lending to strangers, I think that will work.

Hi Jeff,

I know the intent is for each individual to carry the TE Tokens they are using through the Dungeon. But, based on the plan you're laying out, it seems likely that many people will just gather all of them back up in the corridor after the coaching room, carry them through the Dungeon themselves, and then hand them all back out in the corridor after the final room before the Epilogue room. Do you see that as a problem?

Thanks,
Mike

I am very pointedly against one part of this change in rules.

I host multiple runs for friends every year. I have at least one player fail to return a weapon token each year.

I have specific storage in my carry bag that zips shut to ensure none of the high value tokens fall out mid dungeon.

Adding another level of potential loss to my dungeon experience by requiring I hand over tokens that have never left their storage case to 9 different people so they can carry them through the dungeon, have them validated at the exit, gather treasure, gather completion tokens, then return the treasure enhancers back to their safe storage location seems like an extremely risky and unnecessary additional step forced on the playerbase.

I am absolutely OK with the Coaching room coach requiring he physically validate each treasure enhancing token.

I am absolutely OK with the Epilogue room volunteer requiring he physically validate each treasure enhancing token.

I am absolutely NOT OK with being forced to distribute multiple tokens out to people who have NEVER before had to keep track of them and taking personal responsibility for the potential loss of thousands of dollars in tokens if a token that is not securely stored falls out of a pocket unnoticed across the run.

Please reconsider this piece of your decision. It does nothing to increase the security of the use of tokens. It INCREASES the chances of fake treasure enhancing tokens getting distributed among the player base by taking advantage of trusting players willing to take the risk.

This decision forces me to risk thousands of dollars worth of tokens every single time I run any event at True Dungeon. I am NOT OK with this decision.



Also in regards to not being allowed to return treasure enhancing tokens to their proper storage until after the epilogue room, does this apply to every single player on every run of True Dungeon, wither they are borrowed or physically owned by the user? Will every player be required to hold their treasure enhancers out of their token binders for the entire run every time? Would this also apply to tokens stored in token holder cases?

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I am absolutely NOT OK with being forced to distribute multiple tokens out to people who have NEVER before had to keep track of them and taking personal responsibility for the potential loss of thousands of dollars in tokens if a token that is not securely stored falls out of a pocket unnoticed across the run.

Piggybacking on Arcanist's concerns....

* I have teenagers with (clinically diagnosed) ADHD. I would never give them a token worth $1000 and expect them to keep it on their person for a 2-hour period - particularly not a 2 hour adventure full of excitement, distraction, reaching in and out of pockets, kneeling, crawling, examining, and changing rooms every 12 minutes. My kids don't come to True Dungeon (yet) but still....

* I know other people take their (young) children through the dungeon with them, and would not expect a parent to give their child that degree of responsibility.

* I know other adults with ADHD who accompany their friends through the dungeon and constantly have to be reminded to bring their backpack from room to room. Some of these adults are spouses of people who carry high value TEs.

While I comprehend the reasoning behind having each player physically present their tokens, and each token being physically handled* I question whether it is necessary or advisable to demand that tokens travel through the dungeon with their user - so long as they can be quickly dispersed among the party for inspection when required. Plus, it's difficult to police this. What is to prevent people from collecting TEs in between the dungeon hallways, and redistributing them just prior to Epilogue?


Having said that, I understand the need for these rule changes, and will attempt to comply to the best of my ability.

Thanks for doing your best to find a workable solution, Jeff.



*sniff* goodbye securely taped TE token holders. I guess I'll have to find some other method of storage which allows for easy removal of tokens in Coaching and Epilogue.

Jeff Martin wrote: We are fine with players lending TEs to friends, but we want to discourage their casual distribution to strangers.

Well, I gotta admit: The proposed rules definitely make me think hard about who I would consider lending my TEs to. Family? Yes. Close friends? Probably. Casual friends? Mmmmaybe. Strangers? ... I'm thinking not.

Raven wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: We are fine with players lending TEs to friends, but we want to discourage their casual distribution to strangers.

Well, I gotta admit: The proposed rules definitely make me think hard about who I would consider lending my TEs to. Family? Yes. Close friends? Probably. Casual friends? Mmmmaybe. Strangers? ... I'm thinking not.

After 2 hours in a dungeon with them don't they become casual friends?...lol.