TOPIC: Dealing with "wandering" Treasure Enhancers

Mike Steele wrote: Brian, that was my thought also. In a Puzzle Room, the DM could wander around and check each player for their Treasure Enhancing Tokens (URTE isn't really an accurate description since the CoA isn't Ultra-Rare). 12 minutes should be plenty of time to catch everyone without too much disruption. The DM would just need to be on guard for anyone passing TE tokens to someone else in the room.

Be prepared for the:

• "We didn't have time to finish the puzzle because the DM needed to see everyone's treasure tokens."
• "Interrupting the puzzle to check treasure really craps on the immersion."

Remember the treasure was changed to promote the "TD Experience". I read that as role playing not auditing. I would prefer checking outside of the seven rooms somehow.

Ed

bpsymington wrote: Didn't read through all seven pages of posts, so forgive me if I am repeating something. Why not have DMs in rooms 3, 4, or 5 check for URTEs? One or more should be a puzzle room, and the DM could check once the puzzle was solved, or during the solving. S/he could mark the party card, so if one of them did it, the others wouldn't need to.

You could have the DMs check the TE tokens as above if a group finishes a room early, and indicate it on the card. If there is no indication when they enter the treasure room, they would have to verify them there. I think it is probably safe to assume that parties with a lot of treasure enhancers also are likely to finish at least one room early and the check could be done at that time.

MasterED wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Brian, that was my thought also. In a Puzzle Room, the DM could wander around and check each player for their Treasure Enhancing Tokens (URTE isn't really an accurate description since the CoA isn't Ultra-Rare). 12 minutes should be plenty of time to catch everyone without too much disruption. The DM would just need to be on guard for anyone passing TE tokens to someone else in the room.

Be prepared for the:

• "We didn't have time to finish the puzzle because the DM needed to see everyone's treasure tokens."
• "Interrupting the puzzle to check treasure really craps on the immersion."

Remember the treasure was changed to promote the "TD Experience". I read that as role playing not auditing. I would prefer checking outside of the seven rooms somehow.

Ed

Second.

It would be some pretty bad PR that would come from having mixed groups of new and old players, and then in the middle of the dungeon while the new players are trying to solve a puzzle, all the old players are constantly jawing with the DM, showing tokens, being distracted, etc.

Then push damage for everyone because they didn't finish the puzzle.

Then the new players die because they are not geared up as high as the other players.

Any solution should not take away from the 84 minutes of actual game play.

Still catching up, but here is what ive got to say so far...

Sealed bag and possession, here is the issue: i am one player of 10, i drop my CoA in the bag, it is sealed. Room 3 i get an urgent call, baby emergency. I am leaving right now, and i am not leaving without my $1000 token.

Audit only a few players at a time: this leaves open potential abuse within the party. A group of 10 could get away with only having 5 or so CoA. 2 people get checked while other work on puzzle or whatever, next 2 step up while the first 2 blend back into crowd and slip their CoA off to others in the party. There must be a gate that is only crossed by being audited. And once past that gate, you cannot return. I suggested placing this gate at the exit when you get your treasure; passing from training to room 1 also sounds promising, but i worry about any delay in the audit as that will eat into room 1 time.

As to why current epilogue check isnt working; one person with 5 CoA can equip the whole party as long as they arent asked to show all 10 at once. Or one person with 10 CoA can equip 2 or more parties running at the same time (or even 12 minutes later), as soon as they finish room 7 they show all 10 to the checker to cover their party, then the next party full of their friends (or paying customers) come in and they hand off the binder to be shown for that group as well. This is one reason i suggested every dungeon have their own epilogue room. And again goes to point abput having a 'gate'.

Would it be possible to make a change to the party card, ideally in the box that records the total pulls? Treat it like the damage boxes, but instead of the types, use the initials for the different enhancers? The coach would circle the tokens for each character so when they get checked, whether in the dungeon or at epilogue, they need to match. It could get cumbersome as more of the Ioun Stones are released, but it may work for now.

balthasar wrote: Would it be possible to make a change to the party card, ideally in the box that records the total pulls? Treat it like the damage boxes, but instead of the types, use the initials for the different enhancers? The coach would circle the tokens for each character so when they get checked, whether in the dungeon or at epilogue, they need to match. It could get cumbersome as more of the Ioun Stones are released, but it may work for now.

I don't understand what the type matters. If they don't change what does that prove or prevent?

jedibcg wrote:

balthasar wrote: Would it be possible to make a change to the party card, ideally in the box that records the total pulls? Treat it like the damage boxes, but instead of the types, use the initials for the different enhancers? The coach would circle the tokens for each character so when they get checked, whether in the dungeon or at epilogue, they need to match. It could get cumbersome as more of the Ioun Stones are released, but it may work for now.

I don't understand what the type matters. If they don't change what does that prove or prevent?

I kind of understand where you're coming from. I've wondered in the epilogue room how closely the volunteer checks the TE tokens. I've shown him the ones I have, but I haven't seen him really calculating if those tokens equal the amount of TE tokens I have on my card. It's more like the volunteer just wants to see if you have TE tokens, and if you do there is the assumption that they add up to the amount on the party card. On the other hand, I've always shown the maximum amount of TE tokens possible, so perhaps they have that treasure coin number memorized.

It would be easier for the Epilogue room (or wherever we decide the verification check will be) volunteer to verify that you have certain TE tokens, than to verify that those TE tokens add up to the amount of treasure coins on the party card.

Mike Steele wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

balthasar wrote: Would it be possible to make a change to the party card, ideally in the box that records the total pulls? Treat it like the damage boxes, but instead of the types, use the initials for the different enhancers? The coach would circle the tokens for each character so when they get checked, whether in the dungeon or at epilogue, they need to match. It could get cumbersome as more of the Ioun Stones are released, but it may work for now.

I don't understand what the type matters. If they don't change what does that prove or prevent?

I kind of understand where you're coming from. I've wondered in the epilogue room how closely the volunteer checks the TE tokens. I've shown him the ones I have, but I haven't seen him really calculating if those tokens equal the amount of TE tokens I have on my card. It's more like the volunteer just wants to see if you have TE tokens, and if you do there is the assumption that they add up to the amount on the party card. On the other hand, I've always shown the maximum amount of TE tokens possible, so perhaps they have that treasure coin number memorized.

It would be easier for the Epilogue room (or wherever we decide the verification check will be) volunteer to verify that you have certain TE tokens, than to verify that those TE tokens add up to the amount of treasure coins on the party card.

Maybe the back of the Party Card should just have a matrix of the character classes and all the TE tokens. The Coach could stamp the TE Tokens that the people have (and calculate how many treasure coins that gives) and the verification volunteer simply verifies that the person has the TE tokens marked in the matrix on the back of the party card. That should be very quick to do.

Mike Steele wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

balthasar wrote: Would it be possible to make a change to the party card, ideally in the box that records the total pulls? Treat it like the damage boxes, but instead of the types, use the initials for the different enhancers? The coach would circle the tokens for each character so when they get checked, whether in the dungeon or at epilogue, they need to match. It could get cumbersome as more of the Ioun Stones are released, but it may work for now.

I don't understand what the type matters. If they don't change what does that prove or prevent?

I kind of understand where you're coming from. I've wondered in the epilogue room how closely the volunteer checks the TE tokens. I've shown him the ones I have, but I haven't seen him really calculating if those tokens equal the amount of TE tokens I have on my card. It's more like the volunteer just wants to see if you have TE tokens, and if you do there is the assumption that they add up to the amount on the party card. On the other hand, I've always shown the maximum amount of TE tokens possible, so perhaps they have that treasure coin number memorized.

It would be easier for the Epilogue room (or wherever we decide the verification check will be) volunteer to verify that you have certain TE tokens, than to verify that those TE tokens add up to the amount of treasure coins on the party card.

Maybe the back of the Party Card should just have a matrix of the character classes and all the TE tokens. The Coach could stamp the TE Tokens that the people have (and calculate how many treasure coins that gives) and the verification volunteer simply verifies that the person has the TE tokens marked in the matrix on the back of the party card. That should be very quick to do.

That's what I suggested right out of the gate and haven't heard a yay or nay against it yet...

Harlax wrote: I like reducing complexity in the coaching room as well. Especially as more IS nuggets are added.

One problem though. If the first player has a CoA or CoGF you don't know what it's worth until everyone has gone through.

That's a very good point.

What if - in the Coaching room - all a Coach has to check is the number of CoGF/CoA in the group? They ask the party to show their Synergy Treasure all at once, and write down that number on the party card. Then the Epilogue staff know that's how many *should* be in the party.

The Coach can also remind players that the Epilogue room will be checking TE tokens, and to have them available to show *per person* as they go into the Epilogue room.

Fast forward to Epilogue room:

The Volunteer at the desk asks to see the party card, and asks to see each individual one at a time.
Players pass from one side of a "choke point" to another, passing the desk to collect treasure/pins/XP, etc.
The Volunteer asks to see that person's Treasure Enhancing tokens.
They hand out treasure according to the TEs they see, using the value assigned by the Coach for the CoGF total.
Once they've received their Treasure Chips, players move to the far side of the desk.

(Ideally, Epilogue staff will see the same number of CoGF/CoAs which the Coach saw go by. If they don't, that sucks, and obviously something has gone wrong... but the people who were able to show the physical CoGF will still get their "full" value for the Treasure Synergies, and those who don't show a CoGF or CoA get nothing for it. Which doesn't stop cheating entirely, but it does penalize those who can't show their tokens instead of the others on the run with them)


I can see a few problems with this:

* It is prone to causing back-ups, especially if the Volunteer on desk is slow, and the space for people to wait before approaching the desk is limited. Room design would be important.

* Players who carry all the tokens for their party will need to have a system where they hand out each person's TE's to them as they head into Epilogue, so each person can show them one by one, and then collect them after.

* Those players who freely share their TE's with others in the party (ie, offering newbies the use of a CoGF so the rest of the players get full Treasure Synergy) will have to trust their party members with physical possession of the token for a short while. (Ideally, the lender goes through first, and then collects the TE on the far side of the desk, as soon as the other player has shown it.)

* If someone is in a rush and needs to go through Epilogue quickly, they will have to juggle and jostle to get to the front of the line, so they can show their tokens, collect their loot, and dash.

Coming into this late. My suggestion.
A double sided party card. A checklist next to each class with all of the possible TEs that can be equipped. Coach checks off the boxes for which TEs are being used for each character.
(For CoA/CoGF there will be a box in the top right where the coach write # of these in the party). Each token then has the set amount of chips for it, with a column for the CoGF effect. Coach can write the # in effect there)

Epilogue room staff the volunteer flips over to the list and looks for the exact tokens that got that player to their # of tokens. If you want to expedite this process, dedicate one or two volunteers to this, and then have another volunteer responsible for distributing out the actual chips, participation token and XP code.

Note: If you are concerned with TEs being passed around in the epilogue room design the room layout in a fashion that filters party members through the room where they leave their party, and the epilogue room, to collect their treasure chips. Parties can wait in the hallway for the rest of their members.

Joshua Long wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

balthasar wrote: Would it be possible to make a change to the party card, ideally in the box that records the total pulls? Treat it like the damage boxes, but instead of the types, use the initials for the different enhancers? The coach would circle the tokens for each character so when they get checked, whether in the dungeon or at epilogue, they need to match. It could get cumbersome as more of the Ioun Stones are released, but it may work for now.

I don't understand what the type matters. If they don't change what does that prove or prevent?

I kind of understand where you're coming from. I've wondered in the epilogue room how closely the volunteer checks the TE tokens. I've shown him the ones I have, but I haven't seen him really calculating if those tokens equal the amount of TE tokens I have on my card. It's more like the volunteer just wants to see if you have TE tokens, and if you do there is the assumption that they add up to the amount on the party card. On the other hand, I've always shown the maximum amount of TE tokens possible, so perhaps they have that treasure coin number memorized.

It would be easier for the Epilogue room (or wherever we decide the verification check will be) volunteer to verify that you have certain TE tokens, than to verify that those TE tokens add up to the amount of treasure coins on the party card.

Maybe the back of the Party Card should just have a matrix of the character classes and all the TE tokens. The Coach could stamp the TE Tokens that the people have (and calculate how many treasure coins that gives) and the verification volunteer simply verifies that the person has the TE tokens marked in the matrix on the back of the party card. That should be very quick to do.

That's what I suggested right out of the gate and haven't heard a yay or nay against it yet...

Yay