TOPIC: Dealing with "wandering" Treasure Enhancers

Matthew Hayward wrote:

archmage78 wrote: As treasure seems to be fast becoming the reason people play...you know instead of a great story, great effects and accomplishing puzzles...this problem is only going to grow.

At a guess, less than 10% of players own a single ultra rare treasure enhancer.

Don't let the forum participants and tokenaholics confuse you.

In my constellation of friends and acquaintances who play, out of 14 people exactly 1 owns any treasure enhancing tokens, and two own anything other than the initial token 10 pack and treasure draws.

Sadly, it's some subset of that less than 10% of the players that have TE tokens abusing the system that are causing this to be required.

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Joshua Baessler wrote: How about this?

Everyone gets their starter bag of tokens already, so bags are plentiful.

Give coaches the same reams of wristbands we get for the runs.

After TEs are verified, owner of said TEs places them in starter bag and coach writes down run time and date and uses the wristband to seal it closed (or we could use zip ties if you wanted stronger security, but still attach the wristband to the bag).

Owner proceeds through dungeon to kick ass and take names.

In Epilogue room volunteer clips wristband off (or ziptie, or whatever), then distributes treasure.

No bag? No treasure.
No wristband on TE bag? No treasure.
Time on wristband does not match your run? No treasure.
Wristband or ziptie not intact? No treasure.

Coaches would have to have some spare bags or larger bags on hand for the people who have more than just 10 CoAs, but I don't think that would be a problem.

This actually seems pretty bulletproof.

Instead of giving coaches wristbands they could be given a card or piece of paper to write date and time on and put it into the pouch with the TEs.

If on the other end the pouch doesn't have the right info we know it wasn't sealed / bagged by a coach for this person.

Cards/paper could be color coded (e.g. purple post it notes for Puzzle on Friday) to make it harder to game.

This could be done in the training room, as by then the party card will designate who has TEs.

It seems like a lot of extra work for volunteers and players. It seems like quite a bit of time to get all those tokens out, get them in the bags, mark the bags and seal them, and then reverse the process at the end. It seems to add risk also, as personally I think the tokens are more safe sealed in the binder than being taken out of the binder, put in bags, carried through the Dungeon in your pocket in the bags, and then sorted back in. TE Tokens could be dropped or lost in the various phases of this, or the bag of tokens could be lost.

The idea of checking them in the training room, and treating the training room like a Dungeon room in which you're not allowed to exit once you enter, seems a simpler process and should work equally well. If combined with the matrix of TE Tokens & Character classes on the back of the Character card, all the Training room person needs to do is verify that the TE tokens marked on the Matrix are in the possession of the players, which should be pretty quick and painless.

I really don't think you can "not allow" someone to leave a room. If someone says they have to leave for any reason (bathroom, not feeling well, whatever) at any point in time they should be allowed to leave. A TD volunteer should never tell them they can't.

Rob F wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Joshua Baessler wrote: How about this?

Everyone gets their starter bag of tokens already, so bags are plentiful.

Give coaches the same reams of wristbands we get for the runs.

After TEs are verified, owner of said TEs places them in starter bag and coach writes down run time and date and uses the wristband to seal it closed (or we could use zip ties if you wanted stronger security, but still attach the wristband to the bag).

Owner proceeds through dungeon to kick ass and take names.

In Epilogue room volunteer clips wristband off (or ziptie, or whatever), then distributes treasure.

No bag? No treasure.
No wristband on TE bag? No treasure.
Time on wristband does not match your run? No treasure.
Wristband or ziptie not intact? No treasure.

Coaches would have to have some spare bags or larger bags on hand for the people who have more than just 10 CoAs, but I don't think that would be a problem.

This actually seems pretty bulletproof.

Instead of giving coaches wristbands they could be given a card or piece of paper to write date and time on and put it into the pouch with the TEs.

If on the other end the pouch doesn't have the right info we know it wasn't sealed / bagged by a coach for this person.

Cards/paper could be color coded (e.g. purple post it notes for Puzzle on Friday) to make it harder to game.

This could be done in the training room, as by then the party card will designate who has TEs.

It seems like a lot of extra work for volunteers and players. It seems like quite a bit of time to get all those tokens out, get them in the bags, mark the bags and seal them, and then reverse the process at the end. It seems to add risk also, as personally I think the tokens are more safe sealed in the binder than being taken out of the binder, put in bags, carried through the Dungeon in your pocket in the bags, and then sorted back in. TE Tokens could be dropped or lost in the various phases of this, or the bag of tokens could be lost.

The idea of checking them in the training room, and treating the training room like a Dungeon room in which you're not allowed to exit once you enter, seems a simpler process and should work equally well. If combined with the matrix of TE Tokens & Character classes on the back of the Character card, all the Training room person needs to do is verify that the TE tokens marked on the Matrix are in the possession of the players, which should be pretty quick and painless.

I really don't think you can "not allow" someone to leave a room. If someone says they have to leave for any reason (bathroom, not feeling well, whatever) at any point in time they should be allowed to leave. A TD volunteer should have no authority to tell them they can't.

Good point, perhaps I should phrase it differently.

The training room would be treated like the 7 Dungeon rooms. If someone leaves it, their adventure is over and they cannot return. That would have to be communicated very clearly in the Coaching room before people went into the Training Room.

Who knows what the percentages are. WE do know that it is a big enough problem that Jeff asked it to stop at the first con of the year and it didn't happen. Now we are going to see and feel what the end result of that is going to be and I bet it will start at Origins. I can be for certain that 100% of the people will not be happy with the end result whatever it is. The only other 100% certainty will be that I will not complain about the result of this and will accept it with happiness and enthusiasm. I only want to be part of the solution.

Mike Steele wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Joshua Baessler wrote: How about this?

Everyone gets their starter bag of tokens already, so bags are plentiful.

Give coaches the same reams of wristbands we get for the runs.

After TEs are verified, owner of said TEs places them in starter bag and coach writes down run time and date and uses the wristband to seal it closed (or we could use zip ties if you wanted stronger security, but still attach the wristband to the bag).

Owner proceeds through dungeon to kick ass and take names.

In Epilogue room volunteer clips wristband off (or ziptie, or whatever), then distributes treasure.

No bag? No treasure.
No wristband on TE bag? No treasure.
Time on wristband does not match your run? No treasure.
Wristband or ziptie not intact? No treasure.

Coaches would have to have some spare bags or larger bags on hand for the people who have more than just 10 CoAs, but I don't think that would be a problem.

This actually seems pretty bulletproof.

Instead of giving coaches wristbands they could be given a card or piece of paper to write date and time on and put it into the pouch with the TEs.

If on the other end the pouch doesn't have the right info we know it wasn't sealed / bagged by a coach for this person.

Cards/paper could be color coded (e.g. purple post it notes for Puzzle on Friday) to make it harder to game.

This could be done in the training room, as by then the party card will designate who has TEs.

It seems like a lot of extra work for volunteers and players. It seems like quite a bit of time to get all those tokens out, get them in the bags, mark the bags and seal them, and then reverse the process at the end. It seems to add risk also, as personally I think the tokens are more safe sealed in the binder than being taken out of the binder, put in bags, carried through the Dungeon in your pocket in the bags, and then sorted back in. TE Tokens could be dropped or lost in the various phases of this, or the bag of tokens could be lost.

The idea of checking them in the training room, and treating the training room like a Dungeon room in which you're not allowed to exit once you enter, seems a simpler process and should work equally well. If combined with the matrix of TE Tokens & Character classes on the back of the Character card, all the Training room person needs to do is verify that the TE tokens marked on the Matrix are in the possession of the players, which should be pretty quick and painless.

I really don't think you can "not allow" someone to leave a room. If someone says they have to leave for any reason (bathroom, not feeling well, whatever) at any point in time they should be allowed to leave. A TD volunteer should have no authority to tell them they can't.

Good point, perhaps I should phrase it differently.

The training room would be treated like the 7 Dungeon rooms. If someone leaves it, their adventure is over and they cannot return. That would have to be communicated very clearly in the Coaching room before people went into the Training Room.

That could work

FirstGladiator wrote: Who knows what the percentages are. WE do know that it is a big enough problem that Jeff asked it to stop at the first con of the year and it didn't happen. Now we are going to see and feel what the end result of that is going to be and I bet it will start at Origins. I can be for certain that 100% of the people will not be happy with the end result whatever it is. The only other 100% certainty will be that I will not complain about the result of this and will accept it with happiness and enthusiasm. I only want to be part of the solution.

How can 100% of the people be unhappy if you're going to be happy?

Mike Steele wrote:

FirstGladiator wrote: Who knows what the percentages are. WE do know that it is a big enough problem that Jeff asked it to stop at the first con of the year and it didn't happen. Now we are going to see and feel what the end result of that is going to be and I bet it will start at Origins. I can be for certain that 100% of the people will not be happy with the end result whatever it is. The only other 100% certainty will be that I will not complain about the result of this and will accept it with happiness and enthusiasm. I only want to be part of the solution.

How can 100% of the people be unhappy if you're going to be happy?

Someone record the date because I absolutely have to agree with Mike there!

Ed

The last thing I want is for the TE's to be removed from the game...

I have never had any of my TE's leave my party when we do a run, but I would like one question answered to make sure I don't violate the rules... (because I have lent one or two to people in my run so we all get max treasure... but the tokens stayed with us).

I own 10 CoA's (there are five people in my immediate family who now play TD)... can I lend the other nine to the others in my party for the run or is that illegal? Most runs I do there are around eight players with their own, and I think being able to lend two out for my own party is nice, but I will stop doing itif that is taboo.

Or, is the issue only with the TE's going to people outside my run while we are doing it? Meaning they are being used simultaneously by different parties? (Passed between groups while on the runs).

I tried reading all 12 pages to see if this was answered, and saw one person posts same question but I didn't see an answer... sorry if it was.

Mongo wrote: The last thing I want is for the TE's to be removed from the game...

I have never had any of my TE's leave my party when we do a run, but I would like one question answered to make sure I don't violate the rules... (because I have lent one or two to people in my run so we all get max treasure... but the tokens stayed with us).

I own 10 CoA's (there are five people in my immediate family who now play TD)... can I lend the other nine to the others in my party for the run or is that illegal? Most runs I do there are around eight players with their own, and I think being able to lend two out for my own party is nice, but I will stop doing itif that is taboo.

Or, is the issue only with the TE's going to people outside my run while we are doing it? Meaning they are being used simultaneously by different parties? (Passed between groups while on the runs).

I tried reading all 12 pages to see if this was answered, and saw one person posts same question but I didn't see an answer... sorry if it was.

The problem is that the same CoAs are being used simultaneously on different Runs. That's the only issue, Mongo. What you are doing is fine.

Ro-gan wrote:

Mongo wrote: The last thing I want is for the TE's to be removed from the game...

I have never had any of my TE's leave my party when we do a run, but I would like one question answered to make sure I don't violate the rules... (because I have lent one or two to people in my run so we all get max treasure... but the tokens stayed with us).

I own 10 CoA's (there are five people in my immediate family who now play TD)... can I lend the other nine to the others in my party for the run or is that illegal? Most runs I do there are around eight players with their own, and I think being able to lend two out for my own party is nice, but I will stop doing itif that is taboo.

Or, is the issue only with the TE's going to people outside my run while we are doing it? Meaning they are being used simultaneously by different parties? (Passed between groups while on the runs).

I tried reading all 12 pages to see if this was answered, and saw one person posts same question but I didn't see an answer... sorry if it was.

The problem is that the same CoAs are being used simultaneously on different Runs. That's the only issue, Mongo. What you are doing is fine.

That's not the only issue. Jeff Martin pretty clearly requested before TDC that people not loan their TE tokens to groups they aren't on. That's regardless of whether it's simultaneous with one of your runs.

I do agree that what Mongo is doing is fine per the current guidance. There don't seem to be any restrictions on loaning your TE tokens to people who are on the same run you are on.

Thanks for the clarification.

I was worried I was wrong in lending them to people on my run.

For reference, here is what Jeff wrote in a Newsletter prior to TDC:

"We'd much appreciate it if players would refrain from loaning out treasure-enhancing tokens -- especially if you are not going on the run. If players are going to claim the use/benefit of a treasure enhancing token, they must show it to the Coach AND retain it on their person throughout the whole adventure. And then they must show these tokens to the person in the Epilogue Room to claim their bonus Treasure Chips. I am sorry we have to go to these measures, but things got a wee bit out of hand last year. Thank you for your understanding in this matter. "