TOPIC: Dealing with "wandering" Treasure Enhancers

James J Krot wrote: Not a ton we can do about the ultra rares but maybe reissue COA with numbered series on them and record the number used, they have to display the numbered COA at the end. I don't see any other way around it.

That only addresses the COA issue. As Druegar mentioned, Jeff is concerned about ALL treasure-enhancers (even the Red ones apparently).

Incognito wrote:

James J Krot wrote: Not a ton we can do about the ultra rares but maybe reissue COA with numbered series on them and record the number used, they have to display the numbered COA at the end. I don't see any other way around it.

That only addresses the COA issue. As Druegar mentioned, Jeff is concerned about ALL treasure-enhancers (even the Red ones apparently).

I can't see getting worked up about the 1 chip tokens.


Please, please remember how precious time is in the coaching room. Let's not add more complexity at that point of the operation.

Joshua Baessler wrote: How about this?

Everyone gets their starter bag of tokens already, so bags are plentiful.

Give coaches the same reams of wristbands we get for the runs.

After TEs are verified, owner of said TEs places them in starter bag and coach writes down run time and date and uses the wristband to seal it closed (or we could use zip ties if you wanted stronger security, but still attach the wristband to the bag).

Owner proceeds through dungeon to kick ass and take names.

In Epilogue room volunteer clips wristband off (or ziptie, or whatever), then distributes treasure.

No bag? No treasure.
No wristband on TE bag? No treasure.
Time on wristband does not match your run? No treasure.
Wristband or ziptie not intact? No treasure.

Coaches would have to have some spare bags or larger bags on hand for the people who have more than just 10 CoAs, but I don't think that would be a problem.

This actually seems pretty bulletproof.

Instead of giving coaches wristbands they could be given a card or piece of paper to write date and time on and put it into the pouch with the TEs.

If on the other end the pouch doesn't have the right info we know it wasn't sealed / bagged by a coach for this person.

Cards/paper could be color coded (e.g. purple post it notes for Puzzle on Friday) to make it harder to game.

This could be done in the training room, as by then the party card will designate who has TEs.

As treasure seems to be fast becoming the reason people play...you know instead of a great story, great effects and accomplishing puzzles...this problem is only going to grow. TD could turn the TE into something more like the alternate character classes. You have to turn the token in, your information is taken and put in the system, and then you get the character card. Something that registers your TE for the run. Then, if two people are turning in the same TE tokens they can be informed that they are cheating and must stop. This would mean reprinting these TE tokens to put identification information on them, but that wouldn't be that hard to do.

While labeling the TEs would not stop the problem the first time, it would prevent the second occurrence, as people would have been found to be cheating and could be punished accordingly.

Perhaps the threat of punishment of some sort would be enough to prevent the issue?

I want to protect the game, so am willing to submit to as much as is reasonable.

I am hearing a lot of protect the coaching room, which I think is a good idea.

Protecting the training room seems much less important to me, though having never been in either one, I can't say for certain.

Is there a way to cordon off the space in the epilogue room so that we can do a true recheck there?

It might be better if this could be individualized per dungeon, not sure if there are enough volunteers for that.

Joshua Baessler wrote: How about this?

Everyone gets their starter bag of tokens already, so bags are plentiful.

Give coaches the same reams of wristbands we get for the runs.

After TEs are verified, owner of said TEs places them in starter bag and coach writes down run time and date and uses the wristband to seal it closed (or we could use zip ties if you wanted stronger security, but still attach the wristband to the bag).

Owner proceeds through dungeon to kick ass and take names.

In Epilogue room volunteer clips wristband off (or ziptie, or whatever), then distributes treasure.

No bag? No treasure.
No wristband on TE bag? No treasure.
Time on wristband does not match your run? No treasure.
Wristband or ziptie not intact? No treasure.

Coaches would have to have some spare bags or larger bags on hand for the people who have more than just 10 CoAs, but I don't think that would be a problem.

+1. Joshua I really like this idea. Better than the one I had.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: While labeling the TEs would not stop the problem the first time, it would prevent the second occurrence, as people would have been found to be cheating and could be punished accordingly.

Perhaps the threat of punishment of some sort would be enough to prevent the issue?

I want to protect the game, so am willing to submit to as much as is reasonable.

I am hearing a lot of protect the coaching room, which I think is a good idea.

Protecting the training room seems much less important to me, though having never been in either one, I can't say for certain.

Is there a way to cordon off the space in the epilogue room so that we can do a true recheck there?

It might be better if this could be individualized per dungeon, not sure if there are enough volunteers for that.

Depending on what is used to "seal" the bag and exactly how it is done this can still be circumvented.

Once the bag is "sealed" a person could give the bag to someone else out of the run to do with it as they wish and just make sure to get it back to the person in the epilogue room.

If the bag is sealed with just a zip tie those can be easily be replaced. As for the wrist bands, unless they are unique someone could go out and get their own, prior to the con, and proceed to forge the time since they have the original broken "seal" with them as well.

Joshua Long wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: While labeling the TEs would not stop the problem the first time, it would prevent the second occurrence, as people would have been found to be cheating and could be punished accordingly.

Perhaps the threat of punishment of some sort would be enough to prevent the issue?

I want to protect the game, so am willing to submit to as much as is reasonable.

I am hearing a lot of protect the coaching room, which I think is a good idea.

Protecting the training room seems much less important to me, though having never been in either one, I can't say for certain.

Is there a way to cordon off the space in the epilogue room so that we can do a true recheck there?

It might be better if this could be individualized per dungeon, not sure if there are enough volunteers for that.

Depending on what is used to "seal" the bag and exactly how it is done this can still be circumvented.

Once the bag is "sealed" a person could give the bag to someone else out of the run to do with it as they wish and just make sure to get it back to the person in the epilogue room.

If the bag is sealed with just a zip tie those can be easily be replaced. As for the wrist bands, unless they are unique someone could go out and get their own, prior to the con, and proceed to forge the time since they have the original broken "seal" with them as well.

If the wrist bands had something like the TD logo (incorporated with something like GC2017) sure it could be copied but it would require a bit of work. There is hardly anything that is not foolproof, but making it not worth the effort is another question.

jedibcg wrote:

Joshua Long wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: While labeling the TEs would not stop the problem the first time, it would prevent the second occurrence, as people would have been found to be cheating and could be punished accordingly.

Perhaps the threat of punishment of some sort would be enough to prevent the issue?

I want to protect the game, so am willing to submit to as much as is reasonable.

I am hearing a lot of protect the coaching room, which I think is a good idea.

Protecting the training room seems much less important to me, though having never been in either one, I can't say for certain.

Is there a way to cordon off the space in the epilogue room so that we can do a true recheck there?

It might be better if this could be individualized per dungeon, not sure if there are enough volunteers for that.

Depending on what is used to "seal" the bag and exactly how it is done this can still be circumvented.

Once the bag is "sealed" a person could give the bag to someone else out of the run to do with it as they wish and just make sure to get it back to the person in the epilogue room.

If the bag is sealed with just a zip tie those can be easily be replaced. As for the wrist bands, unless they are unique someone could go out and get their own, prior to the con, and proceed to forge the time since they have the original broken "seal" with them as well.

If the wrist bands had something like the TD logo (incorporated with something like GC2017) sure it could be copied but it would require a bit of work. There is hardly anything that is not foolproof, but making it not worth the effort is another question.

That's what I was implying. They couldn't use plain wristbands anymore. They would need to have the TD logo on them or something like that. It cost extra to do and no clue if they are willing to spend money/how much money to stop this issue.

Joshua Long wrote:
That's what I was implying. They couldn't use plain wristbands anymore. They would need to have the TD logo on them or something like that. It cost extra to do and no clue if they are willing to spend money/how much money to stop this issue.

Sorry I thought you meant unique from each other not unique from other wrist bands.

archmage78 wrote: As treasure seems to be fast becoming the reason people play...you know instead of a great story, great effects and accomplishing puzzles...this problem is only going to grow.

At a guess, less than 10% of players own a single ultra rare treasure enhancer.

Don't let the forum participants and tokenaholics confuse you.

In my constellation of friends and acquaintances who play, out of 14 people exactly 1 owns any treasure enhancing tokens, and two own anything other than the initial token 10 pack and treasure draws.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Joshua Baessler wrote: How about this?

Everyone gets their starter bag of tokens already, so bags are plentiful.

Give coaches the same reams of wristbands we get for the runs.

After TEs are verified, owner of said TEs places them in starter bag and coach writes down run time and date and uses the wristband to seal it closed (or we could use zip ties if you wanted stronger security, but still attach the wristband to the bag).

Owner proceeds through dungeon to kick ass and take names.

In Epilogue room volunteer clips wristband off (or ziptie, or whatever), then distributes treasure.

No bag? No treasure.
No wristband on TE bag? No treasure.
Time on wristband does not match your run? No treasure.
Wristband or ziptie not intact? No treasure.

Coaches would have to have some spare bags or larger bags on hand for the people who have more than just 10 CoAs, but I don't think that would be a problem.

This actually seems pretty bulletproof.

Instead of giving coaches wristbands they could be given a card or piece of paper to write date and time on and put it into the pouch with the TEs.

If on the other end the pouch doesn't have the right info we know it wasn't sealed / bagged by a coach for this person.

Cards/paper could be color coded (e.g. purple post it notes for Puzzle on Friday) to make it harder to game.

This could be done in the training room, as by then the party card will designate who has TEs.

It seems like a lot of extra work for volunteers and players. It seems like quite a bit of time to get all those tokens out, get them in the bags, mark the bags and seal them, and then reverse the process at the end. It seems to add risk also, as personally I think the tokens are more safe sealed in the binder than being taken out of the binder, put in bags, carried through the Dungeon in your pocket in the bags, and then sorted back in. TE Tokens could be dropped or lost in the various phases of this, or the bag of tokens could be lost.

The idea of checking them in the training room, and treating the training room like a Dungeon room in which you're not allowed to exit once you enter, seems a simpler process and should work equally well. If combined with the matrix of TE Tokens & Character classes on the back of the Character card, all the Training room person needs to do is verify that the TE tokens marked on the Matrix are in the possession of the players, which should be pretty quick and painless.