TOPIC: New for 2015 -- Psychic Powers!

This is true.

valetutto wrote: Lets just agree they are unique and more rare then URs.

There will be more Tooth #1 than any 2015 UR except, perhaps, the Amulet of Treasure Finding.

Not sayin', just sayin'...

Mike Steele wrote: I share your concern about psychic powers making module development more of a challenge. For Water Walking in particular

I don't see how the psychic power Water Walking changes anything as far as module design goes. Boots of Water Walking have existed since 2010.

valetutto wrote: I think the water walking is no big deal. When desiging any room he's always going to need to consider all the token by-pass ways out there.


The teeth are no more "free" than the rod of 7 parts pieces were. While considering them valued at $1000 a piece is probably high 0 is certainly low. If I buy a lot of tokens and I get a freebie UR should I now value all URs as free? Ofcorse not. Lets just agree they are unique and more rare then URs. Should their power level absolutely be more than an UR? No but it shouldn't be super minor or it ends up feeling underwhelming to the point of why bother.

I personally think these are off to a good but very minor start. Should they get a little boost? probably but maybe that can be accomplished via set rules. Perhaps a set boost for all the URs with Potential to unlock. Perhaps there are set of teeth that unlock more powers, like a 3 tooth set and a 5 tooth set or something like might items.

Actually, the Teeth are far more common than your average UR. Including the "00" packs, you will get a Tooth with every 5 URs. That means that the Teeth are about four times as common as your average UR. Probably less than that once you take into account the orders of less than $1K, but even with that probably about 3-4 times as common as an average UR.

No they are more common than a Specific UR. They are far more rare than the Average UR as you get 4 Average URs with every Tooth and only if its in an order of $1000 or more.

I will conceed that any specific UR has a fair chance to be more rare than the Tooth but I'd have to know more about the token sales and how many $250 orders get placed each year. TEURs are likely to be far more common then the teeth.

valetutto wrote: No they are more common than a Specific UR. They are far more rare than the Average UR as you get 4 Average URs with every Tooth and only if its in an order of $1000 or more.

I will conceed that any specific UR has a fair chance to be more rare than the Tooth but I'd have to know more about the token sales and how many $250 orders get placed each year. TEURs are likely to be far more common then the teeth.

I think you've got it reversed. They are more common than the average UR, but are likely to be less common than some specific URs (Wind Boots and Amulet of Treasure Finding most likely). The total number of UR's will be greater than the number of Teeth, though.

Regarding the Teeth being no more or less "cost" than the Rod Segments, I agree. I always thought of those as freebie bonuses as well. The first one was definitely a freebie bonus, since Jeff never advertised that it existed, it was a nice surprise. They certainly have a secondary market value, but (from my perspective) they are freebies with the token orders.

And the secondary market value of these may be very different from the Rod Segments. There will be a lot more of Tooth #1 out there than there were of Segment 1.

Of course there may be more players chasing it now.

But I'd still be surprise if it ever commands the kind of price Segements 1&2 are currently.

Druegar wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I share your concern about psychic powers making module development more of a challenge. For Water Walking in particular

I don't see how the psychic power Water Walking changes anything as far as module design goes. Boots of Water Walking have existed since 2010.

True, but very few people actually outfit the Boots of Water Walking, given all the other more popular options. There will likely be a ton of people outfitting the Psychic Ioun Stone with a Tooth.

Harlax wrote: And the secondary market value of these may be very different from the Rod Segments. There will be a lot more of Tooth #1 out there than there were of Segment 1.

Of course there may be more players chasing it now.

But I'd still be surprise if it ever commands the kind of price Segements 1&2 are currently.

I'd also be amazed if the Teeth price get anywhere near Rod Segment 1 or 2 (or maybe even 3). And I doubt very much if the completed Tooth token is going to be worth anywhere near what a completed Rod is worth.

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote: And the secondary market value of these may be very different from the Rod Segments. There will be a lot more of Tooth #1 out there than there were of Segment 1.

Of course there may be more players chasing it now.

But I'd still be surprise if it ever commands the kind of price Segements 1&2 are currently.

I'd also be amazed if the Teeth price get anywhere near Rod Segment 1 or 2 (or maybe even 3). And I doubt very much if the completed Tooth token is going to be worth anywhere near what a completed Rod is worth.

The one thing that might be a kicker is if the completed "dentures of power " granted access to the prestige classes.

Druegar wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I share your concern about psychic powers making module development more of a challenge. For Water Walking in particular

I don't see how the psychic power Water Walking changes anything as far as module design goes. Boots of Water Walking have existed since 2010.

Since BoWW have only one use, and it competes with other much more useful tokens, it's probably ok if they break a room. The player is effectively punished in the other six in return. I doubt many if any players last year wore them, unless they'd have been barefoot otherwise.

But the tooth... As of this year you give up nothing to have a water walking option, except 6 pts of healing, and that's replaceable by a few Frostberries or half a level 0 spell from a well-kitted healer. I expect you'll see many more water walkers than in previous years.

So you have to design a room where water walk is allowed, does something useful, but doesn't ruin the room. But I'm not sure the last restraint is that important. During these discussions I think of the squid room. Players could hand over the pearl and avoid combat altogether. One smart or repeating player could "break" that room pretty easily, and it didn't even take a token to do it. I don't recall anyone complaining about that one, but maybe they did and I just missed it.

In the past, there always seemed to be some excuse why flying or water walking didn't work. If they are going to get nerfed to avoid ruining the dungeon, so that the powers effectively provide no benefit and do nothing, then why even have them?

I agree. If the players want to break a room, oh well just let them especially if it only effects them.

Great you get across but the rest of your party is trapped have fun with that.


@Mike - how about this. They are approximitely the same rarity level as an UR. Fair?

I think something is lost in translation/verbiage.

I see it like this:
To me, I spend $1000 and get 4-5 YYs but only 1 ZZ. That makes the ZZ more rare.

When I went back to look more closely I noticed I did not have 4-5 YYs but infact I had (1)A (1)B (1)C and (1)D now I feel that my ZZ is just as rare as the rest.

After that I found there was a F that I was missing and now to me F is more rare than the ZZ, but I do know that I could choose to get (4) F and get 1 and only 1 ZZ with it.

I rest happily knowing ZZ is still more rare because its restricted in access.


Hopefully that explains my view point.