TOPIC: Auctioning off portions of $8k order

Incognito wrote:

Kaledor wrote:

Rob F wrote: Here's my thought:

Everyone knew when the auction would end, so if you waited until a minute or two beforehand to try and post a reply and weren't able to get your bid in then tough s++t, your fault for waiting so long. Sorry if I come off like an ass by saying that but people had days to bid on this stuff. You wait until the last second and something goes wrong then too bad. I say you stick with the original rules and James gets the Orb. Note: I don't think any of my bids were impacted by people sniping and I could care less if I was out bid. I got all of the bids in I wanted to about 30 minutes before auction close.

Actually about 15 minutes before auction closing is when my forum started acting up.

If someone else was going for the same item and outbid you, you would have had to jump on again to bid. Just saying!

That's a good point. If someone was sniping you and you then had to re-bid, the forum outage could prevent you from entering an updated bid.

I bid the top prices I'm willing to pay usually an hour to half hour before an auction ends. If someone out bids me, oh well. Don't care. So let people snipe me if they want but if it back fires on them for some reason don't start whining about it. Their fault I say.

Kirk Bauer wrote: OK, I got one bid by text which was already outbid, one by email (Kaledor) which was just raising his 9 PYPs from $114 to $115, and one via PM from henwy bidding $555 on the Orb and $115 on 3 PYPs.

The PM from henwy is the only one that really had much of an impact, which is the Dragon Orb. James Krot was the high bidder before that at $550. Tentatively I'm accepting the bid via PM because of the forum troubles, however I'm open to feedback on whether that is the fair thing to do.

Or have Henwy and James play PvP combat to decide?

First post has been updated. I'll get some PMs out to the winners with your total, and then you can let me know if you want it shipped for $4 extra or delivered at GHC.

I'm pretty sure I'll spin off another one of these auctions with somewhat different rules and we can try this again.

Thanks!

I couldn't see a higher bid on the forums during the time otherwise I would have raised the bid hence the frustration. I was willing to bid up to 600 for the orb.

Kirk Bauer wrote: OK, perhaps 12 hours is the time it needs to go before ending. I'd also have to do minimum bid increments from the start so it doesn't go on too long.

I could do eBay style where you PM your bids to me, however I still believe sniping is the optimum strategy there. It doesn't give others a chance to raise their previous maximum bid. And people do that.

I'd recommend just picking an end time and sticking to it, and have a warning to not wait until the last few minutes to bid because the system could crash again. That way, if someone is waiting until the end to bid, they are accepting the risk that the system might crash.

If it were me Id end the auction as soon as the total reached 8k (or whatever figure you set) no time extentions. That way people would likely just bid what they were willing to pay rather then waiting to snipe.

Picc wrote: If it were me Id end the auction as soon as the total reached 8k (or whatever figure you set) no time extentions. That way people would likely just bid what they were willing to pay rather then waiting to snipe.

I think Kirk made a lot of additional money by letting it go a day or two past the point where he met his dollar threshold. I think the way Kirk did it this year was fine, except changing it to Ebay style, and just having a cautionary note about the system crashing. I think the system crashing alone might reduce last second sniping. Although, from a seller POV, there's nothing really wrong with last-second sniping - every bid is a good bid no matter when it happens.

Mike Steele wrote:

Picc wrote: If it were me Id end the auction as soon as the total reached 8k (or whatever figure you set) no time extensions. That way people would likely just bid what they were willing to pay rather then waiting to snipe.

I think Kirk made a lot of additional money by letting it go a day or two past the point where he met his dollar threshold. I think the way Kirk did it this year was fine, except changing it to Ebay style, and just having a cautionary note about the system crashing. I think the system crashing alone might reduce last second sniping. Although, from a seller POV, there's nothing really wrong with last-second sniping - every bid is a good bid no matter when it happens.

The auction was fine, and I hope Kirk runs another one (whatever rule set he uses) I was just trying to think up a rules set that would prevent all the last minute stuff being the optimal methodology. Ending at a reserve rather then a time is about the best I could come up with given the limitations of the software. Other wise I cant really see how to get around it with any fixed end time model. I think you either have to stop at a reserve or keep extending indefinitely until people stop bumping the price.

The other issue with Ebay style auctions is they dont really work with public max bids. You bid $10 on item X with a public max bid of $100, thats basically the same as just having bid $100. It only works if your max bid is secret, which creates more work for Kirk as people try to tease out your max bid through pm.

Picc wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Picc wrote: If it were me Id end the auction as soon as the total reached 8k (or whatever figure you set) no time extensions. That way people would likely just bid what they were willing to pay rather then waiting to snipe.

I think Kirk made a lot of additional money by letting it go a day or two past the point where he met his dollar threshold. I think the way Kirk did it this year was fine, except changing it to Ebay style, and just having a cautionary note about the system crashing. I think the system crashing alone might reduce last second sniping. Although, from a seller POV, there's nothing really wrong with last-second sniping - every bid is a good bid no matter when it happens.

The auction was fine, and I hope Kirk runs another one (whatever rule set he uses) I was just trying to think up a rules set that would prevent all the last minute stuff being the optimal methodology. Ending at a reserve rather then a time is about the best I could come up with given the limitations of the software. Other wise I cant really see how to get around it with any fixed end time model. I think you either have to stop at a reserve or keep extending indefinitely until people stop bumping the price.

The other issue with Ebay style auctions is they dont really work with public max bids. You bid $10 on item X with a public max bid of $100, thats basically the same as just having bid $100. It only works if your max bid is secret, which creates more work for Kirk as people try to tease out your max bid through pm.

I guess what I was saying is there's no problem with allowing last-minute bidding with a fixed end time. If people understand that there is a risk that the system could crash and still want to wait until the last second, they are accepting that risk. I know that if Kirk allows Ebay bidding via PMs, I'll plan on having any final bids I might have at least 10-15 minutes before the end of the auction. Or Kirk might have a backup option of bids via email - which it sounds like several people did this time anyway.

Picc wrote: The other issue with Ebay style auctions is they dont really work with public max bids. You bid $10 on item X with a public max bid of $100, thats basically the same as just having bid $100. It only works if your max bid is secret, which creates more work for Kirk as people try to tease out your max bid through pm.

Ebay is a lot more work because of edging up.. Until you inform people that they can only bid three times on a given item. It's more work to track, but incentive to not try sniping with a low ball or probing just to raise the price.

Alternatively, end the auction a bit earlier and do your extensions by fifteen minutes only.

My suggestion would be to split the PYP off into their own thread. There are a lot of them, and everyone was bidding on different amounts of them. I ended up losing track and not realizing that I was outbid before the thread went down.

I'd prefer to not expect the forums to crash. There's more going on with the site than just auctions.

Rithzarian wrote:

Picc wrote: The other issue with Ebay style auctions is they dont really work with public max bids. You bid $10 on item X with a public max bid of $100, thats basically the same as just having bid $100. It only works if your max bid is secret, which creates more work for Kirk as people try to tease out your max bid through pm.

Ebay is a lot more work because of edging up.. Until you inform people that they can only bid three times on a given item. It's more work to track, but incentive to not try sniping with a low ball or probing just to raise the price.

Alternatively, end the auction a bit earlier and do your extensions by fifteen minutes only.

My suggestion would be to split the PYP off into their own thread. There are a lot of them, and everyone was bidding on different amounts of them. I ended up losing track and not realizing that I was outbid before the thread went down.

Well, bidding gradually to edge up the price wouldn't work in an online auction nearly as well as on Ebay. On Ebay the bids are calculated nearly instantly. With an online auction, the prices only refresh as often as Kirk refreshes the first post. So, if you try to gradually edge up the bid, you might run out of time before you succeed.

Even if the bids are public, there is still a difference between Ebay and non-Ebay type bids. For instance, if the current bid is $50 and I bid $100, with non-Ebay bidding my bid stands at $100, while with Ebay type bidding it's very possible that the second highest bid never gets close to $100. In fact, that's why the seller needs to allow bids via PM with Ebay style bidding, because if I bid $100, nobody else is going to place a bid unless they want to exceed $100, so the seller could lose out.

To prevent edging up ebay style bids, just rule that each person can only bid on each item once. So, put in your max bid, pay .25/1/5 over the next highest bid if you win. Done.

My plan if running an auction is to set 2 'end' times; at the first time the high bid earns 'right to last bid'. Then, the 2nd time is the end of the auction, if someone ELSE has the final high bid, the person with 'right to last bid' has one more shot to outbid them.
...while this doesnt address the crash issue, it does disincentivize sniping; you can snipe at the very end only to be outbid by the person with last bid rights, OR you can snipe for last bid rights, but people can then run the price up after, defeating the point of sniping for the low price.

kurtreznor wrote: To prevent edging up ebay style bids, just rule that each person can only bid on each item once. So, put in your max bid, pay .25/1/5 over the next highest bid if you win. Done.

My plan if running an auction is to set 2 'end' times; at the first time the high bid earns 'right to last bid'. Then, the 2nd time is the end of the auction, if someone ELSE has the final high bid, the person with 'right to last bid' has one more shot to outbid them.
...while this doesnt address the crash issue, it does disincentivize sniping; you can snipe at the very end only to be outbid by the person with last bid rights, OR you can snipe for last bid rights, but people can then run the price up after, defeating the point of sniping for the low price.

That sounds pretty complicated. And I don't understand why a seller would want to limit the number of times someone could bid on their auctions, it seems counter-productive to getting the best price. If you limit people to just one bid, I think almost everyone will want to save that one bid until the very end, to avoid having someone else outbid them.

I also don't understand the sentiment that seems to be forming on the forums that sniping is some awful thing that needs to be stamped out. I don't think there's inherently anything wrong with bidding at the last second. On Ebay, as a Seller I always look forward to seeing the last second bid activity. It can get better prices for the seller, and if a buyer wants to avoid getting sniped, they should just bid the maximum amount they are willing to pay (assuming it's an Ebay style auction). Then, if someone outbids them at the last second, it doesn't really matter because that's a higher amount than they were willing to pay anyway.