TOPIC: +5 Final Transmute Recipes

On the other hand, this year we have a *** recipe that requires a bit and *four* Planks. Sure, that's great for big collectors that are swimming in Planks they can't sell, but what incentive does a new player have to collect Planks? That's a lot of one good, so new players aren't going to scrape tnat together just with what they have lying around. Sure, you can point them to the big token players to get them for a dollar, but at that point, why not just buy the *** directly? You're not going to encourage new players to transmute by forcing them to the big players who could just sell the the final transmute instead.

IMO the addition of bits without a gold alternative to me are to help slow down the larger orders of multiple (3,4,5 hundred) minor transmutes done at a time. Also adding the trade goods help the large buyers move the glut if their goods on the secondary market helping their roi for the large orders.

MetaphoricDragon wrote: Charm of Health was a very good beginner transmute example. The gold star to me though is still Boots of the Marauder, which per tokendb was:

Belt of Freedom
Minor Ring of Reflexes
Boots of the Raider
Charm of the Wealful Wind
plus ONLY ONE of the following:
Golem Spring
Genie Vapor
the equivalent of 250 GP


That was maybe the second year I ever ran TD, my first year back at Gencon in awhile. The first time I played TD ( '08 ) I used mostly borrowed tokens. I bought a few packs at gencon and a couple tokens from the dealers hall to compensate and ran with that this new year. I don't recall where I first saw the transmute recipe, but I realized that looked like a super useful token, and from the packs I bought from TD, I had most of the ingredients already! I think I was only missing Boots of the Raider, and it was clear that that was another rare token, not a "Whats a Mystic SIlk?) and It gave me a clear use for the Gold piece we had pulled from a pack as well. I was ridiculously excited to be able to transmute that, in one step, using tokens I had obtained through the normal course of Dungeoning. That spark has grown into a minor token-holic, and I still wear those boots ^_^.

This is why I don't like Trade goods in a lot of lower level facing transmutes. A new player can't easily see the path to that. Or its a 2 step process, even if i have the materials to make the Trade Goods, i need to wait to make them, then transmute again to get the actual token. I think there is a huge lure in transmuting if you can use the tokens immediately available at a con to make something new then and there.


As an aside I +1 the bottleneck at monster bits. That has put a damper on my excitement from the tokens next year. I couldn't get to gencon this year. I might be able to slip into gamehole con, but with a Wedding in a couple weeks I need to see where we are after all that in the budget. I initially wanted to try and stretch for the Bead and the treasure charm, but with so many bits now needed, I may end up quite limited.

Some folks still consider those ridiculous for their cost. I'm still using them myself despite now being a mostly UR build. I've gone purple a UR here and there over the years since i've started.

I agree and love to see more recipes that feel more obtainable. The jump between folks like me that run a fair amount (10~ runs a year) but don't spend $$$ on tokens feels wider every cycle. I'm not swimming these pools of excess goods. I still recall that not too long ago that folks were crying about too many bits and gluts of this and that yet now suddenly there's not enough?

I like bits when their an either or addition to recipe. Let me use either bits or gp please or some sort of alternate. Gives folks some flexibility and still gets stuff out of the market.

Druegar wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: The disbursement of information for casual players is actually pretty terrible.

This is a perennial issue. We can't make people come to the forums. We can't make them read posters or handouts in the coaching rooms. We know for certain that people don't read descriptions for events--which is why we don't have dedicated Nightmare runs anymore. What marketing vector(s) would you recommend? That's not snark, I'm genuinely interested in hearing folks' ideas.

In terms of reading the event descriptions, what about just changing the starting time on events? This gives newer players appropriate time in the coaching room, just make sure that the check in desk tells them where to go. No one likes when brand new players sit down 5 minutes before the party card is due and need to outfit themselves; they feel rushed and might not enjoy the experience nearly as much. By "tricking" new players into arriving 10min earlier, it might save a huge hassle and allow for more explaining -even of transmuting basics. Clever wording in the event description could tell experienced players when the coaching room ends/training room starts as well (that way everyone isn't required to just sit there for 20min). You can't make people read anything, but you can make sure that everyone arrives early enough through clever scheduling times.

In terms of communicating, streamline the How-to-Play page. That page specifically seems super clunky and crowded with things that don't even explain how to play. More than that, make each page flow into the next once they start digging further into it. After that, what about creating a small business card sized hand out (like the ones for XP) that are only given to new players or upon request at the check in desk. Hell, even make a QR code for the page if people cant be bothered to type it in a URL and slap that on the card. If there is one more little stack of business cards at check in, it almost makes it a natural question for those volunteers to ask, "Is this your first time ever playing True Dungeon?"
.... Even better than this idea though would be to remake the True Dungeon Introduction video and put that QR on a card. A 5 minute video narrating step by step what a new player will go through (i.e. explain the coaching room, training room, promoting teamwork in the dungeon, epilogue rooms, and beyond) would likely reach the much bigger audience you are hoping. Be sure to include all the appropriate links in the video description too. That link could then even be put into the event descriptions as well. The current "Intro" video is pretty outdated now (though great to see Jeff so excited about what his game has become, and that was uploaded nearly 4 years ago).

A big thing working against this though is the lack of trade good redemption at Gencon. Some people may refuse to pay shipping to send away tokens, only to receive something in return that is "useless" until transmuted. Which considering the Gencon hours for transmuting (also something that could be highlighted better), would restrict new players even more.

Regardless, I think offering the same information already available in a more user friendly/condensed format would certainly help with understanding the transmuting process and the game in general.

......Maybe this part is just wishful thinking, but it would also be cool to see propaganda style posters hanging somewhere very visible to get people thinking. An Uncle Sam style version of Odin saying "GET BETTER GEAR! TRANSMUTE TODAY!"..... just my 2 cents....

Matthew Galambus wrote:

Druegar wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: The disbursement of information for casual players is actually pretty terrible.

This is a perennial issue. We can't make people come to the forums. We can't make them read posters or handouts in the coaching rooms. We know for certain that people don't read descriptions for events--which is why we don't have dedicated Nightmare runs anymore. What marketing vector(s) would you recommend? That's not snark, I'm genuinely interested in hearing folks' ideas.

In terms of reading the event descriptions, what about just changing the starting time on events? This gives newer players appropriate time in the coaching room, just make sure that the check in desk tells them where to go. No one likes when brand new players sit down 5 minutes before the party card is due and need to outfit themselves; they feel rushed and might not enjoy the experience nearly as much. By "tricking" new players into arriving 10min earlier, it might save a huge hassle and allow for more explaining -even of transmuting basics. Clever wording in the event description could tell experienced players when the coaching room ends/training room starts as well (that way everyone isn't required to just sit there for 20min). You can't make people read anything, but you can make sure that everyone arrives early enough through clever scheduling times.

In terms of communicating, streamline the How-to-Play page. That page specifically seems super clunky and crowded with things that don't even explain how to play. More than that, make each page flow into the next once they start digging further into it. After that, what about creating a small business card sized hand out (like the ones for XP) that are only given to new players or upon request at the check in desk. Hell, even make a QR code for the page if people cant be bothered to type it in a URL and slap that on the card. If there is one more little stack of business cards at check in, it almost makes it a natural question for those volunteers to ask, "Is this your first time ever playing True Dungeon?"
.... Even better than this idea though would be to remake the True Dungeon Introduction video and put that QR on a card. A 5 minute video narrating step by step what a new player will go through (i.e. explain the coaching room, training room, promoting teamwork in the dungeon, epilogue rooms, and beyond) would likely reach the much bigger audience you are hoping. Be sure to include all the appropriate links in the video description too. That link could then even be put into the event descriptions as well. The current "Intro" video is pretty outdated now (though great to see Jeff so excited about what his game has become, and that was uploaded nearly 4 years ago).

A big thing working against this though is the lack of trade good redemption at Gencon. Some people may refuse to pay shipping to send away tokens, only to receive something in return that is "useless" until transmuted. Which considering the Gencon hours for transmuting (also something that could be highlighted better), would restrict new players even more.

Regardless, I think offering the same information already available in a more user friendly/condensed format would certainly help with understanding the transmuting process and the game in general.

......Maybe this part is just wishful thinking, but it would also be cool to see propaganda style posters hanging somewhere very visible to get people thinking. An Uncle Sam style version of Odin saying "GET BETTER GEAR! TRANSMUTE TODAY!"..... just my 2 cents....

+1 to being able to do trade item transmuting at GENCON. Even if you have to wait a day or two for it to happen. I'd be totally OK with dropping the tokens off and picking the transmuted tokens up the next day.

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Galambus wrote:

Druegar wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: The disbursement of information for casual players is actually pretty terrible.

This is a perennial issue. We can't make people come to the forums. We can't make them read posters or handouts in the coaching rooms. We know for certain that people don't read descriptions for events--which is why we don't have dedicated Nightmare runs anymore. What marketing vector(s) would you recommend? That's not snark, I'm genuinely interested in hearing folks' ideas.

In terms of reading the event descriptions, what about just changing the starting time on events? This gives newer players appropriate time in the coaching room, just make sure that the check in desk tells them where to go. No one likes when brand new players sit down 5 minutes before the party card is due and need to outfit themselves; they feel rushed and might not enjoy the experience nearly as much. By "tricking" new players into arriving 10min earlier, it might save a huge hassle and allow for more explaining -even of transmuting basics. Clever wording in the event description could tell experienced players when the coaching room ends/training room starts as well (that way everyone isn't required to just sit there for 20min). You can't make people read anything, but you can make sure that everyone arrives early enough through clever scheduling times.

In terms of communicating, streamline the How-to-Play page. That page specifically seems super clunky and crowded with things that don't even explain how to play. More than that, make each page flow into the next once they start digging further into it. After that, what about creating a small business card sized hand out (like the ones for XP) that are only given to new players or upon request at the check in desk. Hell, even make a QR code for the page if people cant be bothered to type it in a URL and slap that on the card. If there is one more little stack of business cards at check in, it almost makes it a natural question for those volunteers to ask, "Is this your first time ever playing True Dungeon?"
.... Even better than this idea though would be to remake the True Dungeon Introduction video and put that QR on a card. A 5 minute video narrating step by step what a new player will go through (i.e. explain the coaching room, training room, promoting teamwork in the dungeon, epilogue rooms, and beyond) would likely reach the much bigger audience you are hoping. Be sure to include all the appropriate links in the video description too. That link could then even be put into the event descriptions as well. The current "Intro" video is pretty outdated now (though great to see Jeff so excited about what his game has become, and that was uploaded nearly 4 years ago).

A big thing working against this though is the lack of trade good redemption at Gencon. Some people may refuse to pay shipping to send away tokens, only to receive something in return that is "useless" until transmuted. Which considering the Gencon hours for transmuting (also something that could be highlighted better), would restrict new players even more.

Regardless, I think offering the same information already available in a more user friendly/condensed format would certainly help with understanding the transmuting process and the game in general.

......Maybe this part is just wishful thinking, but it would also be cool to see propaganda style posters hanging somewhere very visible to get people thinking. An Uncle Sam style version of Odin saying "GET BETTER GEAR! TRANSMUTE TODAY!"..... just my 2 cents....

+1 to being able to do trade item transmuting at GENCON. Even if you have to wait a day or two for it to happen. I'd be totally OK with dropping the tokens off and picking the transmuted tokens up the next day.

Based on my experience in coaching a sizable number of players play with nothing more than what they get in their starter packs. I think on site trade good redemption would predominantly be used by veteran players.

Unless there was a strict limit on the number of goods that could be made and item transmuting was limited to enhanced and maybe exalted items. And those in limited numbers as well. I'm not sure even that would work without adding more volunteers to the process.

Mike Steele wrote: +1 to being able to do trade item transmuting at GENCON. Even if you have to wait a day or two for it to happen. I'd be totally OK with dropping the tokens off and picking the transmuted tokens up the next day.

Yes, I’d like that, too.

No, I don’t think it’s practical. There are few volunteers qualified to staff the transmute room, and they’re all busy coaching and DMing and whatnot. Or maybe they’re just busy trying to enjoy their weekend at the USA’s premiere game con.

Maybe a limit of no more than three trade goods per person per Con wouldn’t be too much, but people bringing in crates and pallets like they do at the trade parties and satellite cons? I don’t see it happening. Not at GenCon.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: +1 to being able to do trade item transmuting at GENCON. Even if you have to wait a day or two for it to happen. I'd be totally OK with dropping the tokens off and picking the transmuted tokens up the next day.

Yes, I’d like that, too.

No, I don’t think it’s practical. There are few volunteers qualified to staff the transmute room, and they’re all busy coaching and DMing and whatnot. Or maybe they’re just busy trying to enjoy their weekend at the USA’s premiere game con.

Maybe a limit of no more than three trade goods per person per Con wouldn’t be too much, but people bringing in crates and pallets like they do at the trade parties and satellite cons? I don’t see it happening. Not at GenCon.

Trade parties. I miss the trade day/token pick up events in Carbondale.

Matthew Galambus wrote:

Druegar wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: The disbursement of information for casual players is actually pretty terrible.

This is a perennial issue. We can't make people come to the forums. We can't make them read posters or handouts in the coaching rooms. We know for certain that people don't read descriptions for events--which is why we don't have dedicated Nightmare runs anymore. What marketing vector(s) would you recommend? That's not snark, I'm genuinely interested in hearing folks' ideas.

In terms of reading the event descriptions, what about just changing the starting time on events? This gives newer players appropriate time in the coaching room, just make sure that the check in desk tells them where to go. No one likes when brand new players sit down 5 minutes before the party card is due and need to outfit themselves; they feel rushed and might not enjoy the experience nearly as much. By "tricking" new players into arriving 10min earlier, it might save a huge hassle and allow for more explaining -even of transmuting basics. Clever wording in the event description could tell experienced players when the coaching room ends/training room starts as well (that way everyone isn't required to just sit there for 20min). You can't make people read anything, but you can make sure that everyone arrives early enough through clever scheduling times.

In terms of communicating, streamline the How-to-Play page. That page specifically seems super clunky and crowded with things that don't even explain how to play. More than that, make each page flow into the next once they start digging further into it. After that, what about creating a small business card sized hand out (like the ones for XP) that are only given to new players or upon request at the check in desk. Hell, even make a QR code for the page if people cant be bothered to type it in a URL and slap that on the card. If there is one more little stack of business cards at check in, it almost makes it a natural question for those volunteers to ask, "Is this your first time ever playing True Dungeon?"
.... Even better than this idea though would be to remake the True Dungeon Introduction video and put that QR on a card. A 5 minute video narrating step by step what a new player will go through (i.e. explain the coaching room, training room, promoting teamwork in the dungeon, epilogue rooms, and beyond) would likely reach the much bigger audience you are hoping. Be sure to include all the appropriate links in the video description too. That link could then even be put into the event descriptions as well. The current "Intro" video is pretty outdated now (though great to see Jeff so excited about what his game has become, and that was uploaded nearly 4 years ago).

A big thing working against this though is the lack of trade good redemption at Gencon. Some people may refuse to pay shipping to send away tokens, only to receive something in return that is "useless" until transmuted. Which considering the Gencon hours for transmuting (also something that could be highlighted better), would restrict new players even more.

Regardless, I think offering the same information already available in a more user friendly/condensed format would certainly help with understanding the transmuting process and the game in general.

......Maybe this part is just wishful thinking, but it would also be cool to see propaganda style posters hanging somewhere very visible to get people thinking. An Uncle Sam style version of Odin saying "GET BETTER GEAR! TRANSMUTE TODAY!"..... just my 2 cents....

Hi Matthew, I’ll talk a little bit about getting people to show up early. Or “tricking them into showing up 10 minutes early“. As a coach I will say that True Dungeon does a pretty good job of getting people to show up early enough to get through the coaching. I am going to say between 15 and 20% of my rooms have new people coming in at an incorrect time so anywhere from 15 to 5 minutes before they’re set to go to the training room. It’s always the smaller percentage that don’t read or pay attention.
This doesn’t seem so bad, but it does create a problem which delays me a few Minutes into the next room which puts me behind. If the stack up, this can become problematic. Another somewhat altruistic but time consuming issue (I don’t want to call it a problem) is veterans outfitting new players in a PUG. There is the issue of trying to explain what the tokens do and ensuring that those tokens come back to the people who want them out which also takes up valuable coaching time
I see my friend and another coach Harlax has also weighed in on this topic but I’d like him to give his opinion on mine.

I like the idea of posters or business cards somewhere directing new players to either a video or something like master Ed’s podcasts which would talk about transmuting tokens and also include a QR code. I will say that I don’t think that much in the coaching rooms gets read but it wouldn’t hurt to have something in there. I could see a poster with a blue token on it and a headline Get This!

I'd like to be able to do transmuting in Indianapolis like we used to be able to do at WYC or at a gaming store. That was a great opportunity to do some transmuting and spend some time with other TD players. I'd love even more another True Dungeon Celebration, I've got a group of 10 or more ready and willing to do that again.

Mike Steele wrote: I'd like to be able to do transmuting in Indianapolis like we used to be able to do at WYC or at a gaming store. That was a great opportunity to do some transmuting and spend some time with other TD players. I'd love even more another True Dungeon Celebration, I've got a group of 10 or more ready and willing to do that again.

I hear that something like that is happening in Madison in a few weeks.

I wouldn't mind a trade day in Indy though.

Harlax wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'd like to be able to do transmuting in Indianapolis like we used to be able to do at WYC or at a gaming store. That was a great opportunity to do some transmuting and spend some time with other TD players. I'd love even more another True Dungeon Celebration, I've got a group of 10 or more ready and willing to do that again.

I hear that something like that is happening in Madison in a few weeks.

I wouldn't mind a trade day in Indy though.

You know if you cannot make it to Madison and just wanted to get together in Indy I am sure there might be folks from Indy that are going to Madison that would transport transmutes for a small fee. In fact I am sure I saw a thread about that.