TOPIC: Old School D&D Nostalgia Time

On the surface I like this idea... but I still think they should handout Xanax to all participants... (no, I don’t condone illegal drug use, but even in person I think this is still a hot topic... and some are more vested than others to have their ideas pushed harder...)

I’m inclined to drop it at this point, Mongo. I’m sure Jeff is aware. If he thinks it should be addressed, it’s on his list. If he doesn’t, it isn’t.

I appreciate everyone’s thoughts about it.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: You could just juggle around your items to get the Dex you need. There was a post with Dexterity based items to add, and I think that there were 26-27 in points you can utilize to increase the Dex. You do have a vast library ?

I think there does not have to be the ultimate build for all of the classes and perhaps people need to make harder choices to get what they want. IMO

Lower the Con, raise the Strength??

Not using any plus-CON to give up

You’re missing the point. I don’t want it solved for me. I can deal. I want it solved for Clerics in general.

Maybe I should just give up Cleric. ATM it just doesn’t feel like the game is geared towards us. Get the Druids to heal you when they aren’t shapeshifting.

Dude, the cleric is one of the best classes. Now, what it seems that you are saying is that despite that you can do an unbelievable amount of healing which is what that class is, you are upset that you have a hard time using the best weapon in the game. One of the big problems in the game is that we are turning every character into the same thing. You are a cleric, you don't exactly need to do 1000 points of damage. It is a great time to be a cleric because you can maximize your healing the millionth degree.

archmage78 wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: You could just juggle around your items to get the Dex you need. There was a post with Dexterity based items to add, and I think that there were 26-27 in points you can utilize to increase the Dex. You do have a vast library ?

I think there does not have to be the ultimate build for all of the classes and perhaps people need to make harder choices to get what they want. IMO

Lower the Con, raise the Strength??

Not using any plus-CON to give up

You’re missing the point. I don’t want it solved for me. I can deal. I want it solved for Clerics in general.

Maybe I should just give up Cleric. ATM it just doesn’t feel like the game is geared towards us. Get the Druids to heal you when they aren’t shapeshifting.

Dude, the cleric is one of the best classes. Now, what it seems that you are saying is that despite that you can do an unbelievable amount of healing which is what that class is, you are upset that you have a hard time using the best weapon in the game. One of the big problems in the game is that we are turning every character into the same thing. You are a cleric, you don't exactly need to do 1000 points of damage. It is a great time to be a cleric because you can maximize your healing the millionth degree.

Point 1. The Hammer was described as a weapon for all classes. Including Clerics.

Point 2. After the Eldritch healing nerf, you are kind of pouring salt in the wound. Pun fully intended.

archmage78 wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: You could just juggle around your items to get the Dex you need. There was a post with Dexterity based items to add, and I think that there were 26-27 in points you can utilize to increase the Dex. You do have a vast library ?

I think there does not have to be the ultimate build for all of the classes and perhaps people need to make harder choices to get what they want. IMO

Lower the Con, raise the Strength??

Not using any plus-CON to give up

You’re missing the point. I don’t want it solved for me. I can deal. I want it solved for Clerics in general.

Maybe I should just give up Cleric. ATM it just doesn’t feel like the game is geared towards us. Get the Druids to heal you when they aren’t shapeshifting.

Dude, the cleric is one of the best classes. Now, what it seems that you are saying is that despite that you can do an unbelievable amount of healing which is what that class is, you are upset that you have a hard time using the best weapon in the game. One of the big problems in the game is that we are turning every character into the same thing. You are a cleric, you don't exactly need to do 1000 points of damage. It is a great time to be a cleric because you can maximize your healing the millionth degree.

Hard to be calm against that argument but significant healer nerfs happen this year and your defense is all our massive healing? Make the cleric only heal no one will play it. All other games always have a severe lack of people wanting to play healers.

Harlax wrote:

archmage78 wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: You could just juggle around your items to get the Dex you need. There was a post with Dexterity based items to add, and I think that there were 26-27 in points you can utilize to increase the Dex. You do have a vast library ?

I think there does not have to be the ultimate build for all of the classes and perhaps people need to make harder choices to get what they want. IMO

Lower the Con, raise the Strength??

Not using any plus-CON to give up

You’re missing the point. I don’t want it solved for me. I can deal. I want it solved for Clerics in general.

Maybe I should just give up Cleric. ATM it just doesn’t feel like the game is geared towards us. Get the Druids to heal you when they aren’t shapeshifting.

Dude, the cleric is one of the best classes. Now, what it seems that you are saying is that despite that you can do an unbelievable amount of healing which is what that class is, you are upset that you have a hard time using the best weapon in the game. One of the big problems in the game is that we are turning every character into the same thing. You are a cleric, you don't exactly need to do 1000 points of damage. It is a great time to be a cleric because you can maximize your healing the millionth degree.

Point 1. The Hammer was described as a weapon for all classes. Including Clerics.

Point 2. After the Eldritch healing nerf, you are kind of pouring salt in the wound. Pun fully intended.

Point 1a. Clerics can wield the Hammer. Mine does.

Rob F wrote:

Harlax wrote:

archmage78 wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: You could just juggle around your items to get the Dex you need. There was a post with Dexterity based items to add, and I think that there were 26-27 in points you can utilize to increase the Dex. You do have a vast library ?

I think there does not have to be the ultimate build for all of the classes and perhaps people need to make harder choices to get what they want. IMO

Lower the Con, raise the Strength??

Not using any plus-CON to give up

You’re missing the point. I don’t want it solved for me. I can deal. I want it solved for Clerics in general.

Maybe I should just give up Cleric. ATM it just doesn’t feel like the game is geared towards us. Get the Druids to heal you when they aren’t shapeshifting.

Dude, the cleric is one of the best classes. Now, what it seems that you are saying is that despite that you can do an unbelievable amount of healing which is what that class is, you are upset that you have a hard time using the best weapon in the game. One of the big problems in the game is that we are turning every character into the same thing. You are a cleric, you don't exactly need to do 1000 points of damage. It is a great time to be a cleric because you can maximize your healing the millionth degree.

Point 1. The Hammer was described as a weapon for all classes. Including Clerics.

Point 2. After the Eldritch healing nerf, you are kind of pouring salt in the wound. Pun fully intended.

Point 1a. Clerics can wield the Hammer. Mine does.

Yes, Clerics can use Thor’s. It’s just harder for us than any other class. And I wasn’t upset about that so much as I was that the Eldritch Kilt made it harder. (Wizards got their +6 CON Kilt, we got +4 DEX +2 CON)

And yes,, we are the second best healer in the game. Between Spell Surge, Mistletoe, and the fact our Restore Spell doesn’t work on ourselves, Druids can actually out-heal Clerics, and OBTW have polymorph and a higher starting DEX. (At least I assume that’s still true. Haven’t run post-nerf numbers.)

I don’t see why Healing has anything to do with it. But thanks for trying to make me feel better about it.

Flik wrote:

archmage78 wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: You could just juggle around your items to get the Dex you need. There was a post with Dexterity based items to add, and I think that there were 26-27 in points you can utilize to increase the Dex. You do have a vast library ?

I think there does not have to be the ultimate build for all of the classes and perhaps people need to make harder choices to get what they want. IMO

Lower the Con, raise the Strength??

Not using any plus-CON to give up

You’re missing the point. I don’t want it solved for me. I can deal. I want it solved for Clerics in general.

Maybe I should just give up Cleric. ATM it just doesn’t feel like the game is geared towards us. Get the Druids to heal you when they aren’t shapeshifting.

Dude, the cleric is one of the best classes. Now, what it seems that you are saying is that despite that you can do an unbelievable amount of healing which is what that class is, you are upset that you have a hard time using the best weapon in the game. One of the big problems in the game is that we are turning every character into the same thing. You are a cleric, you don't exactly need to do 1000 points of damage. It is a great time to be a cleric because you can maximize your healing the millionth degree.

Hard to be calm against that argument but significant healer nerfs happen this year and your defense is all our massive healing? Make the cleric only heal no one will play it. All other games always have a severe lack of people wanting to play healers.

Agreed, pigeonholing people is never good even if healing is the clerics primary responsibility they've been able to wear heavy armor and attack ever since 3rd.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Harlax wrote:

archmage78 wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: You could just juggle around your items to get the Dex you need. There was a post with Dexterity based items to add, and I think that there were 26-27 in points you can utilize to increase the Dex. You do have a vast library ?

I think there does not have to be the ultimate build for all of the classes and perhaps people need to make harder choices to get what they want. IMO

Lower the Con, raise the Strength??

Not using any plus-CON to give up

You’re missing the point. I don’t want it solved for me. I can deal. I want it solved for Clerics in general.

Maybe I should just give up Cleric. ATM it just doesn’t feel like the game is geared towards us. Get the Druids to heal you when they aren’t shapeshifting.

Dude, the cleric is one of the best classes. Now, what it seems that you are saying is that despite that you can do an unbelievable amount of healing which is what that class is, you are upset that you have a hard time using the best weapon in the game. One of the big problems in the game is that we are turning every character into the same thing. You are a cleric, you don't exactly need to do 1000 points of damage. It is a great time to be a cleric because you can maximize your healing the millionth degree.

Point 1. The Hammer was described as a weapon for all classes. Including Clerics.

Point 2. After the Eldritch healing nerf, you are kind of pouring salt in the wound. Pun fully intended.

Point 1a. Clerics can wield the Hammer. Mine does.

Yes, Clerics can use Thor’s. It’s just harder for us than any other class. And I wasn’t upset about that so much as I was that the Eldritch Kilt made it harder. (Wizards got their +6 CON Kilt, we got +4 DEX +2 CON)

And yes,, we are the second best healer in the game. Between Spell Surge, Mistletoe, and the fact our Restore Spell doesn’t work on ourselves, Druids can actually out-heal Clerics, and OBTW have polymorph and a higher starting DEX. (At least I assume that’s still true. Haven’t run post-nerf numbers.)

I don’t see why Healing has anything to do with it. But thanks for trying to make me feel better about it.

I have never used spell surge on a healing spell. Mistletoe is damage spells, not healing. And cleric restore abilities are AMAZING-despite not being able use them on yourself. And your bless and prayer spells are great for the whole party, druid doesnt have anything like that. Cleric has a lot of great support abilities; if you like playing support, great, if you dont like support, you will probably be happier with another class. This isnt a fault in the cleric class, that is the design of cleric.

If you want to be stronger in some aspect (perhaps the ability to be really effective in combat), you have to give up something else. When i build druid, i have to decide if i am doing polymorph druid that has weaker spells, or spell druid that probably wont polymorph at all. In either case, my ranged stats are terrible.

Rob F wrote:

Harlax wrote:

archmage78 wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: You could just juggle around your items to get the Dex you need. There was a post with Dexterity based items to add, and I think that there were 26-27 in points you can utilize to increase the Dex. You do have a vast library ?

I think there does not have to be the ultimate build for all of the classes and perhaps people need to make harder choices to get what they want. IMO

Lower the Con, raise the Strength??

Not using any plus-CON to give up

You’re missing the point. I don’t want it solved for me. I can deal. I want it solved for Clerics in general.

Maybe I should just give up Cleric. ATM it just doesn’t feel like the game is geared towards us. Get the Druids to heal you when they aren’t shapeshifting.

Dude, the cleric is one of the best classes. Now, what it seems that you are saying is that despite that you can do an unbelievable amount of healing which is what that class is, you are upset that you have a hard time using the best weapon in the game. One of the big problems in the game is that we are turning every character into the same thing. You are a cleric, you don't exactly need to do 1000 points of damage. It is a great time to be a cleric because you can maximize your healing the millionth degree.

Point 1. The Hammer was described as a weapon for all classes. Including Clerics.

Point 2. After the Eldritch healing nerf, you are kind of pouring salt in the wound. Pun fully intended.

Point 1a. Clerics can wield the Hammer. Mine does.

Where did I say it was impossible?

I was responding to a post implying they shouldn't be able to do so.

@KurtReznor - Re: Mistletoe - that’s what I get for posting before coffee.

And yes, Restore Spell is fine. But I’ve never wasted a standard action casting Bless, let alone Guidance, unless it was a free round.

When i was lobbying for the Eld Kilt to be +6 DEX, just like it’s +6 CON, I was told the problem isn’t with the Kilt, it’s with Cleric.

So now you’re saying the problem isn’t with Cleric, it’s with me. Could be.

I started playing Cleric early on because nobody else in my parties would play it, and I felt like someone had to. And it was great in 2012, with all the undead. But I’m finding it less and less fun. It just feels like all the other classes are getting lots of fun toys, and the ones we had are getting taken away. I get that most people do not understand the Eldritch Kilt joins the Eldritch set, LoDS, and CoS as the fourth big nerf of the year, because they wanted the HP anyway.

So you’re right. Maybe I should just switch classes.

The Great Rebalancing is coming, so I guess we’ll see what happens there.

Brad Mortensen wrote:
The Great Rebalancing is coming, so I guess we’ll see what happens there.

Are you referring to class specific legendary items, a proposed new set of character cards, or something else?