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Endgame
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10th Level
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Posts: 4776
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Brad Mortensen wrote: Fiddy wrote: Endgame wrote: I'm not following the core concept of how thors hammer and the cleric is now broken. A cleric needs +9 Dex to wield it, which can be acheived a few different ways with 2 tokens. The +5 baton of focus is better in melee damage as well, so really are we just talking about a ranged cleric build that wants the Eldrich kilt that doesnt want to use gloves of the cut purse?
Up until Thor's, Clerics were one of the limited classes that could use hammers.
Added to this, the only ranged weapons Clerics get access to are slings and throwing hammers. No crossbows, no regular bows, no throwing axes, no daggers, etc.
So making one of the classes previously most likely to wield a hammer have the most difficult time to wield these hammers didn't really make sense. Every other class has a much greater variety of options to get to 20 Dex, and some classes that previously couldn't use hammers at all can get to 20 Dex with a single token.
This was all brought up during development of Thor's, but the process felt more rushed last year than prior years or this year.
Imagine if there was Heavy Armor that was usable by all, but required a 20 Int (sorry poor Fighters)? Or a Wand of Eldritch Lightning that was usable by all but required 20 Wis (sorry Wizards)? I suspect we'd see people from those classes be as upset as some Clerics currently are.
That brings us to card redesign. I strongly think that however the class cards get redesigned, that for each stat, at least four classes share lowest values for that stat, so we give more thought to how the requirement impacts people. Currently, anything balanced by a Dex requirement hurts Clerics more than any other class. Anything balanced by Cha hurts a Dwarf Fighter more than any other class. But if you talk about a Str, Con, or Wis requirement you have four classes that share the lowest stat. And an amazing 9 classes share lowest Int stat.
This
We can’t use Welfor’s. We can’t use Io’s, even if we got the DEX. We can’t use the new crossbow that every other class can. We only have two offensive spells, and one of them is Evil-only. (So no constructs, Elementals, animals, slimes...) We have no legendary range option EXCEPT the hammer.
The argument that’s makes the most sense to me for this situation is to keep fighters from stacking all STR and hitting like a truck, so make them spend some DEX. But if that’s the issue, then it could have been addressed directly with a STR cap, or a min CON.
The whole “just wear Cutpurse” argument sounds very much like “let them eat cake.”
Rogues and Rangers can use it by wearing a single RoSP segment, or an uncommon +1 DEX token. Four more classes can get there with that plus the Eldritch Kilt. Everyone else, add another +2, or just keep with the old Kilt.
All Clerics have to do is use the Eldritch Kilt, chase down an OOP UR, and OBTW take a net loss of 4 to 7 STR (depending on what Gloves or Gauntlets they were wearing.) Or, wait four conventions for a hypothetical Charm that hasn’t been announced yet, let alone printed.
If this had been Somebody’s Random Pointy Object, I wouldn’t even care. But I’d still wonder where our ranged legendary was.
Its not just wear cutpurse, it's just that cut purse let's you do it with 2 tokens. I don't have any legendaries, so I'm sure I just don't "get" it, but i see multiple paths to 20dex. There area multiple combinations available between the new kilt, Fatherbane, cut purse, stupendous pendent, quicksilver cube, charm of sipquick, lenses of fey, rod part, and I think all of which are a fraction of the cost of thors hammer. The cheapest option if you're using the Eldrich kilt instead of father bane is to swap a charm with charm of sipquick, at the cost of 1 str and whatever was in the charm slot. In exchange you pickup 10hp and 1 fort save.
Now the theme issue is a different issue all together, but i wasnt around for the token discussion last year. Sounds like it was discussed and the cleric issue was not something that was desired to be addressed?
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