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TOPIC: FINAL Ultra Rare Images

FINAL Ultra Rare Images 11 months 2 weeks ago #49

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Lordoftherealm wrote: I think the +6 would be equal or "less good" than the RoSP. I mean those stats equal +6 are not the best allocated and it is a seven year transmute.


Ya but its slotless, if the kilt granted another pants slot I'd be thrilled to have it be much weaker.

I dont know, at this point it just feels like if were already here on str & more or less con why not just go 4/6/6 and have the token be that much more elegant in terms of text while not leaving ranged builds (especially legendary hammer clerics) out in the cold. I mean would +2 dex really be a deal breaker. Unless were finally admitting that dex is the equal of str in terms of stat value.
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 11 months 2 weeks ago #50

Any chance of getting the Shadowskin cloak back up to the +2 instead of the +1? I mean the token is already in circulation, it is what we all fell in love with.

There is a rare cloak that is +2 to saves.

Sometime you take damage that is piddly that sets off the powers. Whether it is 1 damage or 15 it still goes off.

The +1 on the new shadow skin seems horrible.
Last edit: by Lordoftherealm.
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 11 months 2 weeks ago #51

Lordoftherealm wrote: I think the +6 would be equal or "less good" than the RoSP. I mean those stats equal +6 are not the best allocated and it is a seven year transmute.


I also think +6 to an attribute would be less powerful than +5 Eldritch Damage to all attacks from the Boots. I'm kind of amazed that seems to be such a sticking point, I was really expecting +4 or+5 to all three attributes. +6 to any one Attribute for a transmuted Eldritch token doesn't seem at all overpowered to me. Out of all the changes I'd wanted to the tokens but didn't get, that's the one I really wish had stuck. But as you said, it seems like that ship has sailed.
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 11 months 2 weeks ago #52

Wit regards to the +2 cloak, I am referring to the one that came before this year.
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 11 months 2 weeks ago #53

One last thing...

We are changing the Shadowskin, because grind has a problem with it? So you miss the first hit against the players. Are you supposed to go out of your way to TPK a party? Is Td not about the players having fun? I miss players all of the time in the regular dungeon. It is never my intention to kill off players.

Ever.
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 11 months 2 weeks ago #54

Mike Steele wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: I think the +6 would be equal or "less good" than the RoSP. I mean those stats equal +6 are not the best allocated and it is a seven year transmute.


I also think +6 to an attribute would be less powerful than +5 Eldritch Damage to all attacks from the Boots. I'm kind of amazed that seems to be such a sticking point, I was really expecting +4 or+5 to all three attributes. +6 to any one Attribute for a transmuted Eldritch token doesn't seem at all overpowered to me. Out of all the changes I'd wanted to the tokens but didn't get, that's the one I really wish had stuck. But as you said, it seems like that ship has sailed.


Don't forget that we have a +3 saves cloak at rare! or the +2 polymorph dmg at rare as well.

May be of interest if we're worried about design of tokens that have impact for grind is for grind having it's own errata as needed for tokens (such as shadowskin being once a dungeon vs once a room). Seems that would affect a far smaller subset of the player population.
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Last edit: by Matt.
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 11 months 2 weeks ago #55

Matt wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: I think the +6 would be equal or "less good" than the RoSP. I mean those stats equal +6 are not the best allocated and it is a seven year transmute.


I also think +6 to an attribute would be less powerful than +5 Eldritch Damage to all attacks from the Boots. I'm kind of amazed that seems to be such a sticking point, I was really expecting +4 or+5 to all three attributes. +6 to any one Attribute for a transmuted Eldritch token doesn't seem at all overpowered to me. Out of all the changes I'd wanted to the tokens but didn't get, that's the one I really wish had stuck. But as you said, it seems like that ship has sailed.


Don't forget that we have a +3 saves cloak at rare! or the +2 polymorph dmg at rare as well.

May be of interest if we're worried about design of tokens that have impact for grind is for grind having it's own errata as needed for tokens (such as shadowskin being once a dungeon vs once a room). Seems that would affect a far smaller subset of the player population.


There are already special rules for grind, why not just have alternate rules for the shadow skin cloak in the Grind rules.
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 11 months 2 weeks ago #56

Lordoftherealm wrote: One last thing...

We are changing the Shadowskin, because grind has a problem with it? So you miss the first hit against the players. Are you supposed to go out of your way to TPK a party? Is Td not about the players having fun? I miss players all of the time in the regular dungeon. It is never my intention to kill off players.

Ever.



No, no. It's not just because of Grind.

Shadowskin is a problem in the main dungeon. There aren't a lot of combat rounds to begin with and the monsters don't get many attacks. It's rare to get attacked (let alone hit) by the same monster more than once in a single room. So with the old Cloak of Shadowskin you really don't have to worry about melee/missile attacks. Even more so if you are Druid/Ranger with the Owl Figurine as a backup.

If anything, it's easy enough for me to work around it in Grind. And in fact, I have (and have had to) do that in the past because the Cloak of Shadowskin is so overpowered!
Last edit: by Incognito.
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 11 months 2 weeks ago #57

Incognito wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: One last thing...

We are changing the Shadowskin, because grind has a problem with it? So you miss the first hit against the players. Are you supposed to go out of your way to TPK a party? Is Td not about the players having fun? I miss players all of the time in the regular dungeon. It is never my intention to kill off players.

Ever.



No, no. It's not just because of Grind.

Shadowskin is a problem in the main dungeon. There aren't a lot of combat rounds to begin with and the monsters don't get many attacks. It's rare to get attacked (let alone hit) by the same monster more than once in a single room. So with the old Cloak of Shadowskin you really don't have to worry about melee/missile attacks. Even more so if you are Druid/Ranger with the Owl Figurine as a backup.

If anything, it's easy enough for me to work around it in Grind. And in fact, I have (and have had to) do that in the past because the Cloak of Shadowskin is so overpowered!


Then why not scale up the combat instead of nerfing good items.. Let the monsters attack once at normal, 2x at hardcore, 3x at nightmare and 5x at epic.

Again who is annoyed the DM? I still believe it should be about the players. We do not get to make calls as DMs, we have to call and AC if we want to change anything...
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 11 months 2 weeks ago #58

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Lordoftherealm wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: One last thing...

We are changing the Shadowskin, because grind has a problem with it? So you miss the first hit against the players. Are you supposed to go out of your way to TPK a party? Is Td not about the players having fun? I miss players all of the time in the regular dungeon. It is never my intention to kill off players.

Ever.



No, no. It's not just because of Grind.

Shadowskin is a problem in the main dungeon. There aren't a lot of combat rounds to begin with and the monsters don't get many attacks. It's rare to get attacked (let alone hit) by the same monster more than once in a single room. So with the old Cloak of Shadowskin you really don't have to worry about melee/missile attacks. Even more so if you are Druid/Ranger with the Owl Figurine as a backup.

If anything, it's easy enough for me to work around it in Grind. And in fact, I have (and have had to) do that in the past because the Cloak of Shadowskin is so overpowered!


Then why not scale up the combat instead of nerfing good items.. Let the monsters attack once at normal, 2x at hardcore, 3x at nightmare and 5x at epic.

Again who is annoyed the DM? I still believe it should be about the players. We do not get to make calls as DMs, we have to call and AC if we want to change anything...

Are then you saying all players at a certain lvl would have to have this token?
You either discover a star or you don't. You arrogant punk.
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 11 months 2 weeks ago #59

Lordoftherealm wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: One last thing...

We are changing the Shadowskin, because grind has a problem with it? So you miss the first hit against the players. Are you supposed to go out of your way to TPK a party? Is Td not about the players having fun? I miss players all of the time in the regular dungeon. It is never my intention to kill off players.

Ever.



No, no. It's not just because of Grind.

Shadowskin is a problem in the main dungeon. There aren't a lot of combat rounds to begin with and the monsters don't get many attacks. It's rare to get attacked (let alone hit) by the same monster more than once in a single room. So with the old Cloak of Shadowskin you really don't have to worry about melee/missile attacks. Even more so if you are Druid/Ranger with the Owl Figurine as a backup.

If anything, it's easy enough for me to work around it in Grind. And in fact, I have (and have had to) do that in the past because the Cloak of Shadowskin is so overpowered!


Then why not scale up the combat instead of nerfing good items.. Let the monsters attack once at normal, 2x at hardcore, 3x at nightmare and 5x at epic.

Again who is annoyed the DM? I still believe it should be about the players. We do not get to make calls as DMs, we have to call and AC if we want to change anything...


You dont scale up the combat like that because then any players coming through WITHOUT that item get slaughtered. Playing higher difficulties should be a general power level, not a list of 3 to 5 tokens that you HAVE to equip or else die at that level.
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 11 months 2 weeks ago #60

kurtreznor wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: One last thing...

We are changing the Shadowskin, because grind has a problem with it? So you miss the first hit against the players. Are you supposed to go out of your way to TPK a party? Is Td not about the players having fun? I miss players all of the time in the regular dungeon. It is never my intention to kill off players.

Ever.



No, no. It's not just because of Grind.

Shadowskin is a problem in the main dungeon. There aren't a lot of combat rounds to begin with and the monsters don't get many attacks. It's rare to get attacked (let alone hit) by the same monster more than once in a single room. So with the old Cloak of Shadowskin you really don't have to worry about melee/missile attacks. Even more so if you are Druid/Ranger with the Owl Figurine as a backup.

If anything, it's easy enough for me to work around it in Grind. And in fact, I have (and have had to) do that in the past because the Cloak of Shadowskin is so overpowered!


Then why not scale up the combat instead of nerfing good items.. Let the monsters attack once at normal, 2x at hardcore, 3x at nightmare and 5x at epic.

Again who is annoyed the DM? I still believe it should be about the players. We do not get to make calls as DMs, we have to call and AC if we want to change anything...


You dont scale up the combat like that because then any players coming through WITHOUT that item get slaughtered. Playing higher difficulties should be a general power level, not a list of 3 to 5 tokens that you HAVE to equip or else die at that level.


That was an extreme example. All I am saying is that there are alternatives. The higher end players may not really need a token like that as many of their ACs are though the roof. Mid level players on the other hand can use a boost.

When looking at tokens it is easy to look at ones own build and passively look at others.
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