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TOPIC: FINAL Notes about 2019 Tokens

FINAL Notes about 2019 Tokens 10 months 2 weeks ago #13

isauteikisa wrote: Thank you for commenting on MEC. I feel slightly better about possibly picking one up now, as I can feel slightly more certain about it not being hit by the nerf bat next year.

Still VERY unhappy about the wand change. Having picked up a wand build last year, having the cost // benefit of using those URs I ordered changed literally the year after I picked them up is highly annoying. The lack of response (other than clarifying that MoMM will work the same way) from TPTB just adds to the frustration.

Waiting to see what is done with INT in 2020. If it's just CHA for tomes, I'll be disappointed, but we've got a year to wait for the info.


This is a valid criticism on the wands.

The MoMM remains a valuable token, as 8 or 10 damage as a free action is nothing to sneeze at ( more if typed correctly)

The ISFC does seem pretty weak now.
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FINAL Notes about 2019 Tokens 10 months 2 weeks ago #14

So with an MoMM do we have to lose one wand or two if we want to shoot twice in one round? I’m confused.

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FINAL Notes about 2019 Tokens 10 months 2 weeks ago #15

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

isauteikisa wrote: Thank you for commenting on MEC. I feel slightly better about possibly picking one up now, as I can feel slightly more certain about it not being hit by the nerf bat next year.

Still VERY unhappy about the wand change. Having picked up a wand build last year, having the cost // benefit of using those URs I ordered changed literally the year after I picked them up is highly annoying. The lack of response (other than clarifying that MoMM will work the same way) from TPTB just adds to the frustration.

Waiting to see what is done with INT in 2020. If it's just CHA for tomes, I'll be disappointed, but we've got a year to wait for the info.


This is a valid criticism on the wands.

The MoMM remains a valuable token, as 8 or 10 damage as a free action is nothing to sneeze at ( more if typed correctly)

The ISFC does seem pretty weak now.

It is the most damage dealing Ioun Stone. Some IS add stats but even then they would only be +1 damage. I think it is perception not numbers people are reacting to (understandable just clarifying).

Ed
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FINAL Notes about 2019 Tokens 10 months 2 weeks ago #16

Josh Wilhelmi wrote: So with an MoMM do we have to lose one wand or two if we want to shoot twice in one round? I’m confused.


If you have a Medallion of Mystic Mouth you will only have to place ONE Wand on the combat board so that you can use each one -- each round. At the end of the combat, the Wand token is consumed.

I think the Italics was meant to be removed. The only reason you would need to use two wands is if you want to do two different type of wands.


Ed
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FINAL Notes about 2019 Tokens 10 months 2 weeks ago #17

Jeff, if you are creating a Tome slot, you may want to include the rogues Libram in it.

:)

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FINAL Notes about 2019 Tokens 10 months 2 weeks ago #18

jon wrote: Question about the ice crystal .

Will the coach had +3 to hit and circle cold in the to hit spot or the damage spot?

if you are that worried. use one of the character print outs/phone apps. it is all there and the coach can just check that you have it
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FINAL Notes about 2019 Tokens 10 months 2 weeks ago #19

  • Grekel!
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I missed it until I read another comment and re-read your whole post...

Thanks for addressing the MEC...

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They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to use. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to use once! Oh - and if you really need to think about whether you're going to use the fireball or the + umpty staff of butt-whooping - you're likely to find yourself full of arrows, or fangs, or nasty knives & swords and such. Don't think - just shoot!

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FINAL Notes about 2019 Tokens 10 months 2 weeks ago #20

MasterED wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

isauteikisa wrote: Thank you for commenting on MEC. I feel slightly better about possibly picking one up now, as I can feel slightly more certain about it not being hit by the nerf bat next year.

Still VERY unhappy about the wand change. Having picked up a wand build last year, having the cost // benefit of using those URs I ordered changed literally the year after I picked them up is highly annoying. The lack of response (other than clarifying that MoMM will work the same way) from TPTB just adds to the frustration.

Waiting to see what is done with INT in 2020. If it's just CHA for tomes, I'll be disappointed, but we've got a year to wait for the info.


This is a valid criticism on the wands.

The MoMM remains a valuable token, as 8 or 10 damage as a free action is nothing to sneeze at ( more if typed correctly)

The ISFC does seem pretty weak now.

It is the most damage dealing Ioun Stone. Some IS add stats but even then they would only be +1 damage. I think it is perception not numbers people are reacting to (understandable just clarifying).

Ed


It's a slotted item, whereas recent consumable boosters have been slotless. I think it was at the right power level for the non-consumable wands (only one other effect in the game boosts them [lv 5 Wizard], and while MoMM's free action use of the wand makes that item VERY good, I think it's a fine booster for an item that normally takes a standard action to use and caps at 8 damage under normal circumstances.) With wands returning to consumable, having that in the IS slot (which is coming under increasing slot pressure with all the new TE stones being printed) is internally inconsistent with recent design choices, ESPECIALLY since the token is an UR. Lenses of Sage Speed got a SLOTLESS +2 to damage at Exalted rarity.

Any other IS that adds damage does so sans the need to use a consumable to enable it. It's baked into what your normal Standard action slide is.

Beyond the financial reasons I'm pissed at this change, I'm annoyed at what I see as an internal inconsistency in the design of these consumable boosters.

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FINAL Notes about 2019 Tokens 10 months 2 weeks ago #21

isauteikisa wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

isauteikisa wrote: Thank you for commenting on MEC. I feel slightly better about possibly picking one up now, as I can feel slightly more certain about it not being hit by the nerf bat next year.

Still VERY unhappy about the wand change. Having picked up a wand build last year, having the cost // benefit of using those URs I ordered changed literally the year after I picked them up is highly annoying. The lack of response (other than clarifying that MoMM will work the same way) from TPTB just adds to the frustration.

Waiting to see what is done with INT in 2020. If it's just CHA for tomes, I'll be disappointed, but we've got a year to wait for the info.


This is a valid criticism on the wands.

The MoMM remains a valuable token, as 8 or 10 damage as a free action is nothing to sneeze at ( more if typed correctly)

The ISFC does seem pretty weak now.

It is the most damage dealing Ioun Stone. Some IS add stats but even then they would only be +1 damage. I think it is perception not numbers people are reacting to (understandable just clarifying).

Ed


It's a slotted item, whereas recent consumable boosters have been slotless. I think it was at the right power level for the non-consumable wands (only one other effect in the game boosts them [lv 5 Wizard], and while MoMM's free action use of the wand makes that item VERY good, I think it's a fine booster for an item that normally takes a standard action to use and caps at 8 damage under normal circumstances.) With wands returning to consumable, having that in the IS slot (which is coming under increasing slot pressure with all the new TE stones being printed) is internally inconsistent with recent design choices, ESPECIALLY since the token is an UR. Lenses of Sage Speed got a SLOTLESS +2 to damage at Exalted rarity.

Any other IS that adds damage does so sans the need to use a consumable to enable it. It's baked into what your normal Standard action slide is.

Beyond the financial reasons I'm pissed at this change, I'm annoyed at what I see as an internal inconsistency in the design of these consumable boosters.


Consider last year was a test to see if wands could be no consumable. The test failed for whatever reason and we are going back to them being consumable as they have been for all previous years.

You bring up Lenses of Sage Speed. It should be noted to use them you MUST use 2 scrolls to use the lenses so the Exalted +2 damage from the Greater Arcane Scroll Tube doesn't seem that much better than the IS that works on 1 wand for the entire room.
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FINAL Notes about 2019 Tokens 10 months 2 weeks ago #22

isauteikisa wrote: ...ESPECIALLY since the token is an UR. Lenses of Sage Speed got a SLOTLESS +2 to damage at Exalted rarity.

I think what you mean here is that the Greater Arcane Scroll Tube (slotless) gives +2 to scrolls (damage/healing). If you are using a Lenses of Sage Speed (UR) to Free Action a scroll you can get +2 to it via the GAST.

If you are using a Medallion of Mystic Mouth to Free Action a Wand (same as Lense of Sage Speed but a different slot) you can only get +2 damage with the Ioun Stone Flourite Cube.

But you don't have to turn in the Wand until the end of the room. With the Scroll you use it and it is gone. So if you use the Wand 2 more times in the same room netting a lot more damage then the Scroll (or three Scrolls).

I understand the +2 damage is either coming from Slotless vs Ioun Stone slot but the Slotless costs more consumables to do the same amount of damage. There has to be value in that.

Ed
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FINAL Notes about 2019 Tokens 10 months 2 weeks ago #23

MasterED wrote:

isauteikisa wrote: ...ESPECIALLY since the token is an UR. Lenses of Sage Speed got a SLOTLESS +2 to damage at Exalted rarity.

I think what you mean here is that the Greater Arcane Scroll Tube (slotless) gives +2 to scrolls (damage/healing). If you are using a Lenses of Sage Speed (UR) to Free Action a scroll you can get +2 to it via the GAST.


Correct, I was thinking of other items that enabled "free" consumable usage (on the MoMM axis) at the same time that I was talking about the damage boosters and was mixing up my argument. Thank you for the correction :D

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FINAL Notes about 2019 Tokens 10 months 2 weeks ago #24

jedibcg wrote:
Consider last year was a test to see if wands could be no consumable. The test failed for whatever reason and we are going back to them being consumable as they have been for all previous years.


"going back to them being consumable" is a bit imprecise, here. Wands were multi-use consumables pre-2018.

If we were playing under pre-2018 rules with the Ogre Mage fight this year, I burn one charge of a wand, I see wands aren't working, I fall back and don't waste any more of my consumable. Playing under 2019 rules, it's a complete waste of a token.

I guess that's the main crux of my mechanical argument. You only get a bigger benefit out of the IS than the GAST if you use the wand more than once per room. And if I'm having to use my free action for anything else (drinking a potion during the Giant fight comes to mind), or if the wand proves ineffective (if I only have Frost wands against something that's cold immune, for some reason), I'm not only wasting the consumable, I'm not getting any benefit out of that slot. And when GAST is slotless and of a lower rarity, it seems very inconsistent.

(Full disclosure: I'd be significantly less salty if the IS was a transmuted token that didn't cost me a PYP to acquire.)

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