TOPIC: Notes about Tokens for 2019 !!

Fiddy wrote:

Adam Guay wrote: I didn't think you could wear two of the +5 relsa's rings. Then you end up at +8 with the relic and legendary.

Correct

I wasn't sure about that, so I erred on the side of overpowered.

Mike Steele wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: On a side note, I'm amazed that there are enough non-MEC tokens to add up to +34 damage. That's a lot more than I would have guessed. How many slots does all of that take up though.

2 Rings (2x Relsa's) -> +10 Focus
Both hands (Drake's Staff) -> +5 Focus
Boots (Four WInds) -> +5 Focus
Earcuff (Inspiration) -> +4 Spell Damage from (maxed) Bardsong
Bracers (BoC, need full party) -> +3 Focus
Eyes (Lenses of Focus) -> +1 Focus
Shirt (Shirt of Focus) -> +2 Focus
Neck (Medallion of Focus) -> +1 Focus
Hand (Blessed Tempest Gloves) -> +3 Spell damage

34 total (some of it conditional)

Next year adding the Gregor's tome, and the three item Eldritch set bonus will bump tht up to 38

So that's 10 tokens in 10 slots, including two Legendary tokens, to get to +32 Damage. And one token in one slot, MEC, to add up to +20 Damage. Once again - very overpowered.

You’re implying the 10 hp is trivial. Considering the supply of spell-based healing just got nerfed by 50%, I’m not sure that’s an accurate assumption.

Honestly all of the bonuses are bought and paid for with either good token building or hp...we still have to check the abilities off the card....have low starting hp...and almost no armor. We get to be the glass cannons. If you want to go all out for the max damage you need to be ready to receive or provide for a lot of healing to make up for the lack of con bonuses.

Mike Steele wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: When you talk about balancing dungeon...

Being a combat DM, having the MeC usable more than once in the dungeon is just crazy. Last year when the shadow in the brambles was attacking, the group could not touch it. The wizard cuts themselves and few times and poof it is dead. The damage output, without being able to be targeted is a little off. A measly 10 points of damage for 90+ points is crazy
.

MeC generates at most 20 points of damage a round.

This. It sounds like the token was being used wrong. MEC only double the damage printed on the character card. So 20 for Fireball/Lightning Storm. Or 18 for the level 2 slide spells. Focus item bonuses are not included. Says so right on the charm.

So a 54 point Fireball (which includes every Focus bonus I can find to date) would only do 74 with the MEC. Still a lot, but not great.

A 74 point fireball seems pretty great to me. And the MEC adding 20 by itself when every focus item added together adding only 34 (including Legendaries) seems pretty great.

. Yes - but MEC only adds 20 to the fireball... it’s a scaled bonus based on spell strength.

"Only" adding 20 when a Legendary only adds 5. And in many cases a Cleric or Druid is healing that 10 points of damage.

Teamwork makes the dream work.

Is spell surge too powerful?

Crown of expertise allows spell surge a second time - is it too powerful for Druids?

Xavon wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: On a side note, I'm amazed that there are enough non-MEC tokens to add up to +34 damage. That's a lot more than I would have guessed. How many slots does all of that take up though.

2 Rings (2x Relsa's) -> +10 Focus
Both hands (Drake's Staff) -> +5 Focus
Boots (Four WInds) -> +5 Focus
Earcuff (Inspiration) -> +4 Spell Damage from (maxed) Bardsong
Bracers (BoC, need full party) -> +3 Focus
Eyes (Lenses of Focus) -> +1 Focus
Shirt (Shirt of Focus) -> +2 Focus
Neck (Medallion of Focus) -> +1 Focus
Hand (Blessed Tempest Gloves) -> +3 Spell damage

34 total (some of it conditional)

Next year adding the Gregor's tome, and the three item Eldritch set bonus will bump tht up to 38

So that's 10 tokens in 10 slots, including two Legendary tokens, to get to +32 Damage. And one token in one slot, MEC, to add up to +20 Damage. Once again - very overpowered.

Incorrect. One UR to get between 3 and 20 (and the twenty only once or twice) averaging 10.4 at the cost of 10 HP every time. versus 32 every time with no extra down side.

What exactly was I incorrect about? What you're saying isn't contradicting what I said, other than I guess the subjective statement of whether or not it is overpowered. And, the obvious downside of the 32 points is all the other tokens you could be putting in those 10 slots and what they could do for you (the opportunity cost). Plus of course the actual cost of them, those 10 would cost someone a lot more than one MEC.

Probably no point in discussing the MEC further at this point, I haven't seen any signs that it's going to be changed in this development cycle. Maybe just wait to continue the conversation next token development cycle.

Mike Steele wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: On a side note, I'm amazed that there are enough non-MEC tokens to add up to +34 damage. That's a lot more than I would have guessed. How many slots does all of that take up though.

2 Rings (2x Relsa's) -> +10 Focus
Both hands (Drake's Staff) -> +5 Focus
Boots (Four WInds) -> +5 Focus
Earcuff (Inspiration) -> +4 Spell Damage from (maxed) Bardsong
Bracers (BoC, need full party) -> +3 Focus
Eyes (Lenses of Focus) -> +1 Focus
Shirt (Shirt of Focus) -> +2 Focus
Neck (Medallion of Focus) -> +1 Focus
Hand (Blessed Tempest Gloves) -> +3 Spell damage

34 total (some of it conditional)

Next year adding the Gregor's tome, and the three item Eldritch set bonus will bump tht up to 38

So that's 10 tokens in 10 slots, including two Legendary tokens, to get to +32 Damage. And one token in one slot, MEC, to add up to +20 Damage. Once again - very overpowered.

Incorrect. One UR to get between 3 and 20 (and the twenty only once or twice) averaging 10.4 at the cost of 10 HP every time. versus 32 every time with no extra down side.

What exactly was I incorrect about? What you're saying isn't contradicting what I said, other than I guess the subjective statement of whether or not it is overpowered. And, the obvious downside of the 32 points is all the other tokens you could be putting in those 10 slots and what they could do for you (the opportunity cost). Plus of course the actual cost of them, those 10 would cost someone a lot more than one MEC.

Probably no point in discussing the MEC further at this point, I haven't seen any signs that it's going to be changed in this development cycle. Maybe just wait to continue the conversation next token development cycle.

Maybe incorrect was not the right word. But your compare 20 damage once (or maybe twice) to 32 damage every time (up to 14 times). And you skip over the down side. That skews your argument. It's like saying 'this car gets 60 miles to the gallon' without telling them that it only works for the first gallon of the ten gallon tank, then steadily decreases. And the heater doesn't work.

Xavon wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: On a side note, I'm amazed that there are enough non-MEC tokens to add up to +34 damage. That's a lot more than I would have guessed. How many slots does all of that take up though.

2 Rings (2x Relsa's) -> +10 Focus
Both hands (Drake's Staff) -> +5 Focus
Boots (Four WInds) -> +5 Focus
Earcuff (Inspiration) -> +4 Spell Damage from (maxed) Bardsong
Bracers (BoC, need full party) -> +3 Focus
Eyes (Lenses of Focus) -> +1 Focus
Shirt (Shirt of Focus) -> +2 Focus
Neck (Medallion of Focus) -> +1 Focus
Hand (Blessed Tempest Gloves) -> +3 Spell damage

34 total (some of it conditional)

Next year adding the Gregor's tome, and the three item Eldritch set bonus will bump tht up to 38

So that's 10 tokens in 10 slots, including two Legendary tokens, to get to +32 Damage. And one token in one slot, MEC, to add up to +20 Damage. Once again - very overpowered.

Incorrect. One UR to get between 3 and 20 (and the twenty only once or twice) averaging 10.4 at the cost of 10 HP every time. versus 32 every time with no extra down side.

What exactly was I incorrect about? What you're saying isn't contradicting what I said, other than I guess the subjective statement of whether or not it is overpowered. And, the obvious downside of the 32 points is all the other tokens you could be putting in those 10 slots and what they could do for you (the opportunity cost). Plus of course the actual cost of them, those 10 would cost someone a lot more than one MEC.

Probably no point in discussing the MEC further at this point, I haven't seen any signs that it's going to be changed in this development cycle. Maybe just wait to continue the conversation next token development cycle.

Maybe incorrect was not the right word. But your compare 20 damage once (or maybe twice) to 32 damage every time (up to 14 times). And you skip over the down side. That skews your argument. It's like saying 'this car gets 60 miles to the gallon' without telling them that it only works for the first gallon of the ten gallon tank, then steadily decreases. And the heater doesn't work.

Even comparing the average damage bonus of 10+ for one token compared to 32 for 10 tokens (or just 5 for one Legendary Focus token) shows how overpowered it is. I think the 10 HP cost is overstated - if anything it's a downside for the Clerics & Druids that are healing the Wizards.

But obviously, opinions on the relative power of the token and the impact of the downside are all subjective, and probably a waste of time for now if the token isn't being changed this year.

Mike Steele wrote: I think the 10 HP cost is overstated - if anything it's a downside for the Clerics & Druids that are healing the Wizards.

We’re healing everybody, and the LoDS and Eldritch nerf just cut the healing pool by more than half. I think it’s a downside for the entire party.

I’ll agree, a year ago it was nothing. It’s much more significant next year. Those two nerfs will throttle MEC. Maybe it’s already fixed and we just haven’t had a chance to notice it.

Regarding the Shadowskin cloak... It is too bad that it could not be switched to...

50% miss chance to the first successful melee or missile attack against the character 1/room

So even if you are "hit" it may not be a miss and the initial idea for the cloak might stay?

Lordoftherealm wrote: Regarding the Shadowskin cloak... It is too bad that it could not be switched to...

50% miss chance to the first successful melee or missile attack against the character 1/room

So even if you are "hit" it may not be a miss and the initial idea for the cloak might stay?

If rooms weren't timed, this would be a great solution.

Imagine rolling for each cloak? Yikes.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: Regarding the Shadowskin cloak... It is too bad that it could not be switched to...

50% miss chance to the first successful melee or missile attack against the character 1/room

So even if you are "hit" it may not be a miss and the initial idea for the cloak might stay?

If rooms weren't timed, this would be a great solution.

Imagine rolling for each cloak? Yikes.

No difference than the Rakshasa this year.

Lordoftherealm wrote: Regarding the Shadowskin cloak... It is too bad that it could not be switched to...

50% miss chance to the first successful melee or missile attack against the character 1/room

So even if you are "hit" it may not be a miss and the initial idea for the cloak might stay?

So better hat of escape

tokendb.com/token/hat-of-escape/