TOPIC: 2019 Transmuted Token Images !!

Jeff Martin wrote: PLEASE take a last final look at these token images, and please note any issues you see. We are pretty much final on the token abilities, but we would love your help in finding any errors.

25 pages later. That was pretty optimistic.

Harlax wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: PLEASE take a last final look at these token images, and please note any issues you see. We are pretty much final on the token abilities, but we would love your help in finding any errors.

25 pages later. That was pretty optimistic.

seems to happen every year, as soon as Jeff thinks he is done, we debate our way through 5 more revisions >_>

MetaphoricDragon wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: PLEASE take a last final look at these token images, and please note any issues you see. We are pretty much final on the token abilities, but we would love your help in finding any errors.

25 pages later. That was pretty optimistic.

seems to happen every year, as soon as Jeff thinks he is done, we debate our way through 5 more revisions >_>

Me every year: Don't fall in love with Tokens and plan your buy before the final versions!

Me mid way through token design: I've totally reworked my build and planned out my buy!

Me at end of token design: Next year I'm not falling in love with tokens and I'm not planning my buy before the final version.

I think rather than the Lute as a Legendary it would be neat for the Bard to get a Dancing +4 rapier. They could slide with it, walk to the back of the line and slide with their other weapon. Can not be used in conjunction with bard song?

I must though, the bead of the lucky traveller is a little less lucky now that it is +2.

With regards to the bead slot. It would be neat if it indeed stayed a +3 and Freedom of movement. and then Jeff never made another bead slot ever. It would be that one weird slot that is related to Norse Mythology (assuming the Norse weaved it into hair and beards) and leave it at that.

MetaphoricDragon wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: PLEASE take a last final look at these token images, and please note any issues you see. We are pretty much final on the token abilities, but we would love your help in finding any errors.

25 pages later. That was pretty optimistic.

seems to happen every year, as soon as Jeff thinks he is done, we debate our way through 5 more revisions >_>

Is it me or this year seems much faster, seems like it used to take weeks/upto a month. I thought last years set design was quick and this seems faster pace yet.

Matt wrote:

MetaphoricDragon wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: PLEASE take a last final look at these token images, and please note any issues you see. We are pretty much final on the token abilities, but we would love your help in finding any errors.

25 pages later. That was pretty optimistic.

seems to happen every year, as soon as Jeff thinks he is done, we debate our way through 5 more revisions >_>

Is it me or this year seems much faster, seems like it used to take weeks/upto a month. I thought last years set design was quick and this seems faster pace yet.

It seems fast so far. Unless in a few weeks we are debating the Final Final Final Version.

I suspect the addition of GHC and Pax South have resulted a need to move faster on token design. More time needed for Con prep work, less time for token noodling.

Harlax wrote:

Matt wrote:

MetaphoricDragon wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: PLEASE take a last final look at these token images, and please note any issues you see. We are pretty much final on the token abilities, but we would love your help in finding any errors.

25 pages later. That was pretty optimistic.

seems to happen every year, as soon as Jeff thinks he is done, we debate our way through 5 more revisions >_>

Is it me or this year seems much faster, seems like it used to take weeks/upto a month. I thought last years set design was quick and this seems faster pace yet.

It seems fast so far. Unless in a few weeks we are debating the Final Final Final Version.

I suspect the addition of GHC and Pax South have resulted a need to move faster on token design. More time needed for Con prep work, less time for token noodling.

Nah, we have to at least get to 'the actually really, no seriously i mean it this time, truly final final final version...take 3'

Harlax wrote:

Matt wrote:

MetaphoricDragon wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: PLEASE take a last final look at these token images, and please note any issues you see. We are pretty much final on the token abilities, but we would love your help in finding any errors.

25 pages later. That was pretty optimistic.

seems to happen every year, as soon as Jeff thinks he is done, we debate our way through 5 more revisions >_>

Is it me or this year seems much faster, seems like it used to take weeks/upto a month. I thought last years set design was quick and this seems faster pace yet.

It seems fast so far. Unless in a few weeks we are debating the Final Final Final Version.

I suspect the addition of GHC and Pax South have resulted a need to move faster on token design. More time needed for Con prep work, less time for token noodling.

Thank goodness. I don't know how you guys dealt with months of this.

Matt wrote:

MetaphoricDragon wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: PLEASE take a last final look at these token images, and please note any issues you see. We are pretty much final on the token abilities, but we would love your help in finding any errors.

25 pages later. That was pretty optimistic.

seems to happen every year, as soon as Jeff thinks he is done, we debate our way through 5 more revisions >_>

Is it me or this year seems much faster, seems like it used to take weeks/upto a month. I thought last years set design was quick and this seems faster pace yet.

It does seem faster this year. I noticed that they were only in the Lords and Lady's section for 2 days before going out to the rest of the forum. I was only halfway through digging my way through all those comments when the threads got locked.

Incognito wrote:

Hawk Fingle wrote: Sure, you see a variety of Bard instruments, because there's nowhere else to go right now except to carry around all the Bard instruments.

There's been no advancement options for Bards since the UR instruments showed up, leading to a variety of instruments being used.

So what does this legendary really do in game terms for the Bard that has all those instruments? One token instead of a bunch, sure, but what's the actual gain for gameplay?

An extra +2 to attacks and frees up the one free action a round from swapping instruments to doing something else for a change.

It doesn't let you Bardsong and use the Monster Lore check from what I can see, unless they're including it in the list.

It isn't a major shift in game balance at all when you look at it and place it in its proper context of high tier play.

As much as I want a legendary instrument, I feel a bit cheated by this implementation. I was expecting something really really cool beyond those features. Like, those features were always going to be the standard expectation of a relic, with the legendary doing the same and something else cool.

As is, these instruments are underwhelming, yet to be expected, and we still have people complaining they are too strong?

I'm sorry. I don't agree. This is the best we're going to get, and that's just how it is. Any other idea of what a legendary instrument should do will be shot to pieces. And Jeff has locked in with this.

At least now I have a legendary to work towards.

Yes, people complain because Bard Song continues to be one of the most (if not the most) powerful class abilities in the game.

Bard Song makes or breaks a lot of combats in TD. It's that good. Already.

And your point is... what? That there should never be anything for Bards to work towards because they are already in your opinion "that good"? That there can never be a legendary instrument that actually helps the player enjoy the game that much more and gives them something to work towards over their years of playing?

Making or breaking combats is fun. Hearing a DM say "You hit thanks to the Bard," is fun. Being able to do things other than stand in a corner is fun. Having a cool relic and legendary token as a goal that focuses the token collecting and transmuting is fun.

Being told you don't deserve a legendary token because your class of choice is already too good, and the person saying this is using the things that are fun to do in the game as evidence for their argument, is not fun, and actually feels a little rude and condescending. Especially when there are no alternatives offered, just straight up complaints.

The whole point of playing a game is to have fun by overcoming a challenge. My NM dungeon runs of the N-series at Origins and GenCon were not cakewalks, and in a few cases were bordering on so frustratingly punishing as to have me seriously consider quitting TD as a player and never looking back. At $72 and two hours of GenCon time, I can do two runs of TD or not play and do something else with my time and money. If I'm already spending time away from the con to assemble a legendary token, I want my money's worth in fun, both from the token and the game experience.

The Bardsong-is-too-good debate is as old as the hills. That ship has sailed. We're in the day and age of a fifth level of difficulty. A Bard using this legendary instrument is at minimum a NM build, and is pushing towards Epic. Considering my own experience with the hike in NMs difficulty at this past GenCon and hearing how punishing Epic was for other upper tier players, I feel this legendary instrument isn't good enough and should have added something new; unlocked an ability or special 1/game use that wasn't available before via other token effects. I know that isn't going to happen at this point, so I'm only here to argue to keep it as is.

Let it stand. Please. For the love of all the Valkyries, let it go. Let it be. Leave it alone. Add two hands to the bottom, rule it like Widseth's in that the magic of the instrument allows the standard action to take place by compelling/manipulating whatever items are needed in hand, and the player still has one free action per turn to do as they please based on what free actions they have available to them. It's the absolute endgame of everything a Bard was built to do. Don't take this away from us Bards or make it any more watered down than it already is. Don't go round and round with circular logic prompting Jeff to take it away to avoid the hassle and frustration.

I'm begging here. Leave it be.

Lordoftherealm wrote: I must though, the bead of the lucky traveller is a little less lucky now that it is +2.

With regards to the bead slot. It would be neat if it indeed stayed a +3 and Freedom of movement. and then Jeff never made another bead slot ever. It would be that one weird slot that is related to Norse Mythology (assuming the Norse weaved it into hair and beards) and leave it at that.

Honestly, my hope after last year was that the bead would remain an interesting utility slot, like the invisibility/incorporeal beads last year. Maybe eventually we'd get to the Free Action which might let me change my boots, or Immune to Surprise which might let me shift an earcuff around et al. this is one of the few times I might buy into the slot/scope creep arguments