TOPIC: 2019 Transmuted Token Images !!

I think a lot of people have some really good points on the Transmuted Kilt. Would I like a +6 "have it your way" stat - sure. What isn't to like (says the devil on my right shoulder). But the angel on the left says, it isn't good for the game.

The UR Kilts have sailed, we missed the boat there. They can stay out there at least with the negative and some people will continue to use them for a year or forever depending on the build. I never intended to keep my kilts and assumed I would be transmuting them. Now I will keep a set untransmuted just in case I need them for a specific build.

If I couldn't do that (due to economics) I would transmute it in a heart beat. I play multiple classes and the diversity of just having 1 token to apply for any class, the Eldritch benefit (yes I have other pieces so it is valuable to me), and the extra hit points make it an obvious choice. Is it clearly better, well that is completely build dependant (and personal opinion).

Would I like it to be a rocking Kilt of Awesomeness - sure but I will take my good kilt and live to play another day.

Ed

Templar wrote: I mean, if they really wanted to end it, just make it a +6, split however you choose between str, dex, and con (that would ultimately make everyone meet the stats they want).

I think that would end the debate, would meet the +6 dex requirement, would meet the con request, would fit for min/maxers, and would be better than any of the component pieces.

The problem is... if a +5 was too good, than there is no way it would be a +6, particularly with a Burger King ‘kilt it your way’ option.

I know that reading all these threads that there are going to be unhappy people. I totally get that. I know I’m somewhat disappointed seeing the kilt get weakened (IMO) vs strengthened in the updated version.

I don’t know if there is a way to King Solomon this one - no matter how the kilt gets split, I think people aren’t going to all be happy. I just am surprised that it went the opposite of what I initially thought it would be doing.

I know I likely will transmute the kilt, if only to get the eldritch bonus, but it definitely got overall weaker (both in the item itself and in the set) whereas in my build, I was really hoping to excel my healing with the eldritch set... but I’m definitely lacking the rod and ring, and getting those pieces now is somewhat a pipe dream, so even though I get a bonus to attack, I lose a significant chunk off my healing - especially with the nerf bat of the LoDS.


snip

The only think i am asking/begging/pleading for are some other things to be baked in to make the eldritch version more appealing to all over the UR. Atm it has +5 HP, but I don’t think that is enough. I know a lot of folks lost free movement (usually from boots/pants, but if going eldritch, your boot and pant slots would get filled). I don’t think it can do everything for everyone, but when high end builds are considering running the UR vs the eldritch (unless in a super specified build) something is amiss to me.

Agreed,
Really the edritch is for the top %'s at this point more than normal i'm seeing less and less draw for it at all.

When we look at the proposed bead vs Icecrag which was was 3 year and added +2 to stat, plus a awesome/useful abiliy for all builds (the health regen) that feels good no matter the tier and a elemental resistance the bead is still a severe let down considering it's a 4 year. I'd rather see the combo be in a different slot if that's what it takes to bring it more in line.

Templar wrote: I mean, if they really wanted to end it, just make it a +6, split however you choose between str, dex, and con (that would ultimately make everyone meet the stats they want).

I think that would end the debate, would meet the +6 dex requirement, would meet the con request, would fit for min/maxers, and would be better than any of the component pieces.

Interesting, but a nightmare for the judges and tough for the programmers.

Templar wrote: The problem is... if a +5 was too good, than there is no way it would be a +6, particularly with a Burger King ‘kilt it your way’ option.

You know, it is interesting. There are always people who complain that tokens are too strong, even me sometimes. But most of those people still buy/use them. The opposite seems to be far less true. -Note this is just what I have observed. My observations may be inaccurate or clouded by my own view point. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.

@Ed

I think my main gripe is really more with the Hammer than the Kilt, as Fiddy pointed out

Phrash wrote: I would also like to see the "bead" be a Charm or Ioun Stone with +3 to saves and Free Movement.

As a bead I feel like it kills build diversity.

But I also do not plan on getting the Ioun Stone TEs, so there's that.

I think that the bead is a great slot for this, and not a thing that kills build diversity at all... it simply means that the players who go to the trouble get a way to vary the build without being forced into TOO tough of a choice... the pants and boots are the only path I even consider for free movement... and this would allow me to move the hard choices to something else...

In short I like the bead, and I like it with free movement... but as a relic, I don’t also see why it couldn’t have +3 saves...

Grekel! wrote:

Phrash wrote: I would also like to see the "bead" be a Charm or Ioun Stone with +3 to saves and Free Movement.

As a bead I feel like it kills build diversity.

But I also do not plan on getting the Ioun Stone TEs, so there's that.

I think that the bead is a great slot for this, and not a thing that kills build diversity at all... it simply means that the players who go to the trouble get a way to vary the build without being forced into TOO tough of a choice... the pants and boots are the only path I even consider for free movement... and this would allow me to move the hard choices to something else...

In short I like the bead, and I like it with free movement... but as a relic, I don’t also see why it couldn’t have +3 saves...

+2
Especially as a 4 year transmute

Mike Steele wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I like the Kilt, I'm glad this is where we landed (with the exception of some sympathy for Clerics like Brad whose cheese keeps getting moved).


I'd prefer +3 on the Bead, but will transmute similar numbers either way. I just feel +2 is likely to get knocked out of that slot sooner rather than later (unless there are bead slot expanders coming down the line).

Bead art still A+

Tend to agree about the bead... just wondering if +3 would knock free movement off...?

I'd prefer +2 and Free movement to +3 alone.

Yes - I think so too. Although +3 and FoM does not seem to me to be out of keeping with a 4 year transmute... the value of the extra point could be addressed directly in the recipe maybe...?

The recipe is likely to just be one of each monster ingredient token from the four years. I think that's what every other story arc token recipe has been.

I guess that’s true. And since precedent is there - unlikely that will change... so really it is downto whether TPTB would agree that +3 saves AND FoM is in keeping with this level of transmute.... looking at URs Dougal’s is straight +3 saves - Cloak of the Mage is +2 saves and +AC but wiz only... Destiny cloak is straight +3 to saves...

I couldn’t find any Tokens that are +3 saves AND something else... at UR and below...

Greater Cloak of Destiny is +4 saves...

That is not to say I’m not still hoping for +3 AND free movement...

But I thought I’d dig a bit first...

You know - for giggles....

But - this isn't UR or below, this will be a Relic. And at the Relic level, it seems like +3 Saves and Free Movement is pretty equivalent with +4 Saves.

Good point about relic level!

Grekel! wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I like the Kilt, I'm glad this is where we landed (with the exception of some sympathy for Clerics like Brad whose cheese keeps getting moved).


I'd prefer +3 on the Bead, but will transmute similar numbers either way. I just feel +2 is likely to get knocked out of that slot sooner rather than later (unless there are bead slot expanders coming down the line).

Bead art still A+

Tend to agree about the bead... just wondering if +3 would knock free movement off...?

I'd prefer +2 and Free movement to +3 alone.

Yes - I think so too. Although +3 and FoM does not seem to me to be out of keeping with a 4 year transmute... the value of the extra point could be addressed directly in the recipe maybe...?

The recipe is likely to just be one of each monster ingredient token from the four years. I think that's what every other story arc token recipe has been.

I guess that’s true. And since precedent is there - unlikely that will change... so really it is downto whether TPTB would agree that +3 saves AND FoM is in keeping with this level of transmute.... looking at URs Dougal’s is straight +3 saves - Cloak of the Mage is +2 saves and +AC but wiz only... Destiny cloak is straight +3 to saves...

I couldn’t find any Tokens that are +3 saves AND something else... at UR and below...

Greater Cloak of Destiny is +4 saves...

That is not to say I’m not still hoping for +3 AND free movement...

But I thought I’d dig a bit first...

You know - for giggles....

But - this isn't UR or below, this will be a Relic. And at the Relic level, it seems like +3 Saves and Free Movement is pretty equivalent with +4 Saves.

Good point about relic level!

Agreed

I think the issue with the bead, even being a relic or underpowered for a multiple year end of adventure item, is that we have... what, 2 or 3 other released beads, all way less powered than the relic presented.

I’ve said it elsewhere, but if the bead slot is meant to always be a weaker tech slot, the relic at +2 saves with free movement might be in the right place. However, as history tends to show, the game will eventually generate stat boosters for the slot, which makes the ‘relic’ become less used.

But tbf, all relics and legendaries aren’t equal. I mean, how many token whales are sporting the +4 to their AC in their wrist slots? I’m guessing not many.

I don’t think it’s designation matters as much as what goes in to make it. If it’s like previous recipes, yeah it is weaker than icecrag earcuffs, but stronger than dragon tooth amulets, or medallions of greyhawk (which if following the new recipe setup, would also be relics).

I don’t think the bead is competing with other things atm. Most everyone will equip them and use them for as long as they are BiS, and retire them when an UR bead or volunteer token eclipses it. I mean, I would do so even if it was a +1 it saves - it just is the best bead presented so far. I don’t think that will always be the case, however.

I’m not trying to be cynical - that just seems to be the way of (most) of those tokens, save for the Icecrag. Most of the end of arc tokens seem to be better than a rare, but less useful than an UR in most cases. I’m not saying I’ve never had fun staring the Medusa in the eye while wearing a medallion of Grayhawk, but I have far more useful things that I can put in a neck slot.

Comparing it to a Dougals cloak of the stars only matters if the bead slot is meant to be the power equiv of the back slot. I haven’t heard one way or the other as to the intent of the slot.

And (sorry to kick a dead horse here) but the pants went from a weak slot to one of the biggest adjusters of stats over the last 2-3 years. Remember when UR pants gave +3 hp and immunity to slow/ hold/ other hindrances?

Bob Chasan wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

Phrash wrote: I would also like to see the "bead" be a Charm or Ioun Stone with +3 to saves and Free Movement.

As a bead I feel like it kills build diversity.

But I also do not plan on getting the Ioun Stone TEs, so there's that.

I think that the bead is a great slot for this, and not a thing that kills build diversity at all... it simply means that the players who go to the trouble get a way to vary the build without being forced into TOO tough of a choice... the pants and boots are the only path I even consider for free movement... and this would allow me to move the hard choices to something else...

In short I like the bead, and I like it with free movement... but as a relic, I don’t also see why it couldn’t have +3 saves...

+2
Especially as a 4 year transmute

+3

Flik wrote:

Bob Chasan wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

Phrash wrote: I would also like to see the "bead" be a Charm or Ioun Stone with +3 to saves and Free Movement.

As a bead I feel like it kills build diversity.

But I also do not plan on getting the Ioun Stone TEs, so there's that.

I think that the bead is a great slot for this, and not a thing that kills build diversity at all... it simply means that the players who go to the trouble get a way to vary the build without being forced into TOO tough of a choice... the pants and boots are the only path I even consider for free movement... and this would allow me to move the hard choices to something else...

In short I like the bead, and I like it with free movement... but as a relic, I don’t also see why it couldn’t have +3 saves...

+2
Especially as a 4 year transmute

+3

-1

Picc wrote:

Flik wrote:

Bob Chasan wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

Phrash wrote: I would also like to see the "bead" be a Charm or Ioun Stone with +3 to saves and Free Movement.

As a bead I feel like it kills build diversity.

But I also do not plan on getting the Ioun Stone TEs, so there's that.

I think that the bead is a great slot for this, and not a thing that kills build diversity at all... it simply means that the players who go to the trouble get a way to vary the build without being forced into TOO tough of a choice... the pants and boots are the only path I even consider for free movement... and this would allow me to move the hard choices to something else...

In short I like the bead, and I like it with free movement... but as a relic, I don’t also see why it couldn’t have +3 saves...

+2
Especially as a 4 year transmute

+3

-1

Reflecting on Icecrag. I was certainly comparing the two as I thought about my expectation for a 4 year transmute versus a 3 year transmute. I remember how amazed we were with the Icecrag when it came out. I reflect on how I have talked about Icecrag and Orbits creating slot lock for me.

So while I have advocated for the +3 save on the bead, I am ok with the +2 and Freedom of Movement.. Especially in a year where power creep (or the avoidance thereof) is taking center stage.