TOPIC: 2019 Transmuted Token Images !!

Harlax wrote:

edwin wrote: Will stick with Pantaloons of the Deeperdark and Bead Unseen Vision to get +3HP, freedom of movement and see invisible.

If I use the transmuted Kilt and Bead I would get +5HP, choice of stat bump, freedom of movement and +2 saves.

Seeing invisible is more than worth the extra hitpoints, stat bump and save bonus for my purposes.

Dust of Appearance...

They are in relative short supply these days.

Plus, with PUGs I would not want to count on other players have the token to kick in.

Looking back on old Eldritch items in the database it looks like there is no gold requirement normally, if so maybe just give it a 5K GP requirement to acked as a effective 4th kilt in cost and then make the kilt closer to what we expected.

The only downside to that is if people aren’t prepared for that.

Just a thought, maybe to late in the game but worth tossing out there.

Wayne Rhodes wrote:
The only downside to that is if people aren’t prepared for that.

.

There would be many.

Harlax wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:
The only downside to that is if people aren’t prepared for that.

.

There would be many.

Then it’s likely a bad idea. Thanks for the feedback.

edwin wrote:

Harlax wrote:

edwin wrote: Will stick with Pantaloons of the Deeperdark and Bead Unseen Vision to get +3HP, freedom of movement and see invisible.

If I use the transmuted Kilt and Bead I would get +5HP, choice of stat bump, freedom of movement and +2 saves.

Seeing invisible is more than worth the extra hitpoints, stat bump and save bonus for my purposes.

Dust of Appearance...

They are in relative short supply these days.

Plus, with PUGs I would not want to count on other players have the token to kick in.

Jeff tends to include mitigation tokens in the year something appears.

I.e. if invisible monsters come back, I’m pretty sure so will Dust and... something

I really love the bead, I love it for the way that it looks, I love it for the save bonuses that I keep failing in game and most importantly I love it for the Freedom of Movement. Would I like it better if it was a +3 to saves? Who wouldn't? Does it jeopardize the dynamics of the game? That is a Jeff question.

Does it matter that any new token disturbs your BIS? Short answer, nope! Why should every adventurer look and act the same way. Do you ALL need the same equipment? no. So many do not buy or transmute the item/s in question. There are other fish (players) in the sea, and they will. Making less of them actually makes them more valuable.

I am really happy with the freedom of movement. I am happy that it is a possibility in the bead or the kilt. Why do wear men wear kilts? For the freedom of movement. Could a kilt be used as a parachute for free fall? Why not?

Jeff will make the right choice. I do like playing TD and would like to play for years to come.

Templar wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I would personally prefer a straight +3 saves on the beads or +3 and something other than free movement

Maybe add free movement to the kilt instead

I like this an an additional solution to the kilt/bead debate.

Atm, this bead will be the auto BIS for now (until TPTB get squirrelly and make a bead that boosts a stat, and then we will go further down that rabbit hole). I’m totally okay with a +2 saves and free movement, or even just +2 to saves If the bead is meant to be a small bonus slot and not go the way of the pants. If the intend is to use the slot more liberally, than this bead will go the way of the dragon tooth amulet and medallion of Greyhawk, and just be outclassed by the newest stuff.

The kilt as is will be argued against the other kilts, and I see that as problematic as the eldritch should, on its own, be demonstratively better. That said, with the bonuses going haywire and being a +6 (and let’s be honest - any with a high end build can skirt the negative in lieu of maxing their desired stat), it’s hard to balance this. I don’t think it’s okay to talk about the eldritch set bonus as that isn’t an automatic - it’s dependent on someone having other exceptionally high end, multi-year tokens, and I don’t think that is a healthy way to examine it. The highest of the high collectors might have these in spades, but most folks in the mid tier/mid tier+ aren’t going to have access to those - but the kilt being a 3 year was the most attainable of the eldritch transmutes. The ring and boots both meet or exceed the totals of the components that went in to make them, and both of those eldritch items are noticeably better and universal. I think the only reason the kilt is different is because it is the only item that deals with core stats and therefore changes the way a character drives.

So, as stated, maybe leave the kilt as presented, with the +4 to your choice, +5 HP, and then add either free movement here, or the proposed +1 to hit (which kind of splits the bonus of both the Dex and Str and acts as a middle ground). Heck, I could even see it being ‘between STR, DEX, and CON. Add +4 to one, add +2 to another, +5 additional HP.’

Or even +4 to one, +2 to the others (which eliminates the need of the 5 hp and would grant save bonuses and other downstream boosts).

This might not mitigate the root bonus of the URs (which again, barrelbane is still an issue imho, but so are the others with some focused builds), but this might fix how it appears at its core, for a token that should absolutely be the BiS.

I agree with you for the most part except the proposal for +4 to one and +2 to the others. That solution isn’t a good enough to convince Brad nor myself to transmute. He needs the Dex and I need the HP. This solution would cause us to keep the current kilts that we have equipped

I just had a crazy idea for the bead:

What if we break some new design ground and create a token with different effects in different slots.

Ioun is a defensive slot.
Bead seems to be (at least in 2018) a slot about overcoming monstrer immunity to targeting/hitting

What if it were:

Bauble if the Traveler

+3 to saves and free action when equipped in Ioun

Ignore monster to-hit penalties when equipped in bead

May equip only 1 Bauble of the Traveler.


Power level could be tuned - just wondering if this could be a fun time to make the first modular token.

I guess +2 rod of persuasion and Stu’s are kind of similar - maybe the first non-weapon modular token.

Matthew Hayward wrote: I just had a crazy idea for the bead:

What if we break some new design ground and create a token with different effects in different slots.

Ioun is a defensive slot.
Bead seems to be (at least in 2018) a slot about overcoming monstrer immunity to targeting/hitting

What if it were:

Bauble if the Traveler

+3 to saves and free action when equipped in Ioun

Ignore monster to-hit penalties when equipped in bead

May equip only 1 Bauble of the Traveler.


Power level could be tuned - just wondering if this could be a fun time to make the first modular token.

I guess +2 rod of persuasion and Stu’s are kind of similar - maybe the first non-weapon modular token.

How about we not invent new ways to vex coaches and character generator programmers.

Harlax wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I just had a crazy idea for the bead:

What if we break some new design ground and create a token with different effects in different slots.

Ioun is a defensive slot.
Bead seems to be (at least in 2018) a slot about overcoming monstrer immunity to targeting/hitting

What if it were:

Bauble if the Traveler

+3 to saves and free action when equipped in Ioun

Ignore monster to-hit penalties when equipped in bead

May equip only 1 Bauble of the Traveler.


Power level could be tuned - just wondering if this could be a fun time to make the first modular token.

I guess +2 rod of persuasion and Stu’s are kind of similar - maybe the first non-weapon modular token.

How about we not invent new ways to vex coaches and character generator programmers.

Not to mention tokens have limited space for text.

Harlax wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I just had a crazy idea for the bead:

What if we break some new design ground and create a token with different effects in different slots.

Ioun is a defensive slot.
Bead seems to be (at least in 2018) a slot about overcoming monstrer immunity to targeting/hitting

What if it were:

Bauble if the Traveler

+3 to saves and free action when equipped in Ioun

Ignore monster to-hit penalties when equipped in bead

May equip only 1 Bauble of the Traveler.


Power level could be tuned - just wondering if this could be a fun time to make the first modular token.

I guess +2 rod of persuasion and Stu’s are kind of similar - maybe the first non-weapon modular token.

How about we not invent new ways to vex coaches and character generator programmers.

LOL that was my first thought exactly - thinking of myself sitting in the coaching room trying to figure this out for 6 people and trying to coach 4 newbies in the PUG

I mean, if they really wanted to end it, just make it a +6, split however you choose between str, dex, and con (that would ultimately make everyone meet the stats they want).

I think that would end the debate, would meet the +6 dex requirement, would meet the con request, would fit for min/maxers, and would be better than any of the component pieces.

The problem is... if a +5 was too good, than there is no way it would be a +6, particularly with a Burger King ‘kilt it your way’ option.

I know that reading all these threads that there are going to be unhappy people. I totally get that. I know I’m somewhat disappointed seeing the kilt get weakened (IMO) vs strengthened in the updated version.

I don’t know if there is a way to King Solomon this one - no matter how the kilt gets split, I think people aren’t going to all be happy. I just am surprised that it went the opposite of what I initially thought it would be doing.

I know I likely will transmute the kilt, if only to get the eldritch bonus, but it definitely got overall weaker (both in the item itself and in the set) whereas in my build, I was really hoping to excel my healing with the eldritch set... but I’m definitely lacking the rod and ring, and getting those pieces now is somewhat a pipe dream, so even though I get a bonus to attack, I lose a significant chunk off my healing - especially with the nerf bat of the LoDS.

So overall, even a pooled amount of stat bonus (split however you choose), to make everyone happy, would have to be greater than +4 to meet the expectations of some (example with Thor’s hammer).

The only think i am asking/begging/pleading for are some other things to be baked in to make the eldritch version more appealing to all over the UR. Atm it has +5 HP, but I don’t think that is enough. I know a lot of folks lost free movement (usually from boots/pants, but if going eldritch, your boot and pant slots would get filled). I don’t think it can do everything for everyone, but when high end builds are considering running the UR vs the eldritch (unless in a super specified build) something is amiss to me.