TOPIC: 2019 Ultra Rare Token Images !!

jedibcg wrote:

David Harris wrote: Still think
Earcuff of the Phalanx - Big AC jump out off the ear -- seems way to powerful to me. If it must stay then why not +1/+2/+3 AC instead...teams that equip all 10 +3 AC to everyone is still real good, I mean +30 to AC or +40 to AC!

It is not +30 or +40 AC. They don’t add acc to other characters. Each character would only get 1-4 AC depending on which version and how many are in the party.
Idon’t think that is what you mean, but just wanted to make sure.
I still would not give up Inspiration on wizards for 4 ac. +4 damage > than +4 ac imo.

Nor would I.

I also don't think many will be equipping this at all unfortunately. AC is nowhere near as important as many other stats.

I might rather have the Ale Master's Earcuff than this. You just don't get attacked that often.

Harlax wrote:

Picc wrote:

David Harris wrote:
Agree with other no Rogues on the +2 Holy Avenger, please.

Ouch, well you know what fine. We'll go make our own sword

I wonder if Rogue was added to make it Ranger off hand capable?

I hope not. A longsword seems a little unwieldy for an off hand weapon.

Rob F wrote:

The Falcon wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I thought I had a lot more saves coming!

Shadowskin is fine with +1. Rob made good points above that I agree with.

The best would probably be locked in forever at +3 and free movement. I can live with 2 and FM.

The holy avenger was a tease. I suspect it may come back next year to some degree.
Please take rogue off this.
My recollection was that it was always a 2 handed sword, others have said longsword.
Either way, not a rogue weapon.

I’m not feeling the COS
The token is made for reducing
Combat Damage,
+1 or +2 A/C would make way more sense.
Them pumping saves.

I think the ship might have sailed but I could be on board with this. Fits from a thematic standpoint. But cloaks have traditionally been saves.

Except for the Shadow cloak, which gave both.

I think the AC idea is an interesting one, though I could easily see +2 saves coming back. If it were to go to AC, I would say +2 AC instead of saves might be good enough.

jedibcg wrote:

David Harris wrote:
I think an Earcuff will be MUCH more popular than a shield.

The would not be hard to do. It still does not mean it will be popular. If i get one as a random, i will gladly trade for any othere UR of 2019.

That probably makes 2 of us. There may be one or two I would like less as a random, but that's about it.

Ian Lee wrote: +2 Death Flail

I tried to find a comp for the damage wheel. Coincidentally, +2 Heavy Trident of Skewering seems not a terrible comp (Deathcleaver is absurd). Damage wheel seems reasonable. The wording just seems tortured.

If first slide is "20", Barbarian crit dmg x3 instead

My question would not be whether a Barb can crit on something immune to crits, my question with this wording is whether its the Barb's first slide or the first slide by any party member. I would assume Barb first slide. The current wording may be better in this regard, so:

Barbarian: if first slide "20", crit dmg x3 instead

I don't think it's so confusing that it's a change in crit multiple.

+2 Holy Avenger

Not only would I yank rogue back off of this, I'd yank bard off as well. So, Barbarian/Fighters/Paladin/Ranger. This has become far less cool and far less paladiny. So, most of the time, this is a 7 dmg avg wheel versus +2 War Shillelagh being 7.5. The instakill is a thematic bonus and there have been a decent number of outsiders. +2 Saves was kind of crazy. Having this be part of a transmute path later is awkward.

I can see a number of changes, but I could see +2 Will Saves for paladin added back to make it at least somewhat more paladiny in general. Will is interesting when it comes to builds for reasons too long to go into here.

Charm of Quick Strike

Three combats in a dungeon. About 39% chance of this doing anything. Oddly enough, while I'm in favor of reining in power jumping, I think people want their URs to actually do something. To get a better than 50% chance of this doing anything in three combats would need to drop range to 16-20.

I'm for trying to find new mechanics. This strikes me (or doesn't) as randomly terrible. Even if it changed to Initiative +2 no other abilities, it would do something (keep in mind slot competition with this "op" ability). Unfortunately, can't make the attack 1/game automatic as an entire party would just 1 shot any boss or Draccus that came along. I don't know. If only one ability, 16-20 so that it does something a reasonable amount of time, or add another ability that becomes the main ability. Or, if True Grind only tokens at UR are supposed to be a thing, let the Grinders decide whether this does anything.

Charm of Spell Swapping

Image could be altered, runes or something as the focus.

Cloak of Shadowskin

If this were a new token, would I want this over Shaed? It has become an interesting choice. I already ran Shaed over CoS at times, but I also have run +2 Cloak of Resistance over CoS a lot and Shaed was not mathematically better hardly ever except when Incognito is around. I don't know, I guess I'd be happy with +1 Saves version if it were a new token and would think it interesting versus the rare.

Dark Disciple's Shirt

Cool effect. I don't think adding "one" in front of additional is necessary, may be just as confusing in a different way.

Earcuff of the Phalanx

If 10 players, aka 1%er parties, want to run around all wearing these, more AC to them. I'm fine with what it is. I really don't care that classes can get +2 AC by giving up Icecrag/Orbits/Charming/whatever. URs are supposed to do something cool. Actually, ears are a saves slot, maybe a bead and an Earcuff could flip ... NVM, I don't want more pointy arguments.

Eternal Ice Crystal

As I don't run similar tokens, it's hard for me to judge the power level.

Frost Fate Lt. Crossbow

The original idea was exactly that - original. This is dull. It's also pretty much just as weird as autohitting and stunning is not something to just randomly put on tokens. It is also getting more and more similar to +2 Lt. Crossbow of Frost, which is boring.

I was fine with original idea. I just didn't understand why it wasn't a +2 Fixed Fate Lt. Crossbow so that it was clear why its damage wheel was what it was. I have yet to see the scenario where autohitting is that big of a deal, as it only really affects those who are already unlikely to hit, which means it's a cool effect for players who don't have a bunch of URs and sky high Dexes. Is there really going to be a case where this would do something overpowered in comparison to what someone with a high Dex could do? Sure, it makes superSTR builds have an interesting option that get free damage off of Boots of the Broken Wind, but so what? Isn't Potion of Leaping Attack far better, still?

Gregor's Tome of Focus

I stopped caring enough to suggest anything else. It is absurdly powerful at slotless and becomes a standard part of every single UR build for spellcasters. That may be fine and desirable for a tribute token. The PYP demand on this is going to be outrageous, but that happens.

Hat of the Hellway

If strictly better than other UR hats, I guess that's bad. This, to me, is incredibly innocuous and I was in favor of an UR helm last year due to the Redoubt recipe.

Ioun Stone Gold Nugget

Seems grossly underpowered to me as it doesn't autohit, autobypass skill checks, or give +6 STR.

Kilt of Barrelbane

If it has to be +6, sure, whatever.

Lenses of Divine Sight

I would like the bonus to be on scrolls as well, but that does make it even better for scrollers compared to Sage Speed, so, sure, whatever. I would want it as an UR. +2 Focus is better than +2 Healing, but it has a cool ability. It is a massive nerf, to be sure.

Lute of Fury

+1 to hit is worth more than +1 to damage. I would not freak out if it were +1/+2, but +2/+2 just seemed insane. Anyway, by itself, it isn't as cool as Briano's or whatever, but that's the problem with plusses - they may be really good and rather boring.

Questor's Charm of Luck - Art is kind of similar to Spell Swapping.

Ring of Baneful Heroism

My problem with any of the versions is that I have extra Rings of Heroism so the proposed texts all suck for someone like me. It makes it really hard to say what the power level should be as I never had a Medallion of Heroism, so I didn't have to sacrifice precious slots. I don't see the thematics of -2 Dex. Minus saves does make more thematic sense to me, but I'd just remove the extra slot consumption if going to give minus saves. MoH is just not what someone who picks up URs would want, so I don't see trying to balance against it.

How about, since everyone will be sporing a new hat and earcuff that makes their ACs out of control, both ring slots (yuck) and -4 AC? The retributioners and "please hit me I'm guarding" types might even prefer this over RoH, which makes things far more interesting.

Ring of the Yeti

Fine. Yeti and ranged doesn't strike me, but Team Yeti makes this not worth arguing.

Shaman's Belt

Fine with wizard on it. Polymorphing is different and forces players to burn money to be special. I might embrace that camp. No idea what damage wheel should be. I'll let MH crunch the numbers.

Shoes of the Sneak

If rogue players like this, then fine. Seems underwhelming to me, but I don't grasp rogue combat.

Regarding LoDS, you had a good point, why not make it focus, including polymorph, for Clerics & Druids, instead of just +2 healing. Right now, since Druids have few high level spells, it's not great. If it were +2 Focus including Polymorph, limited to Cleric & Druid, I'd outfit it for the Druid & Cleric.

Charm of the Quick Strike needs help. Especially since (correct me if I am wrong) you only roll initiative once in Grind.

*Edit: After talking with a Grind party member, I think we may have rolled for initiative twice in Grind this year.

I would not have this take up a valuable charm slot for an effect that would be unlikely to trigger.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Nor would I.

I also don't think many will be equipping this at all unfortunately. AC is nowhere near as important as many other stats.

I think the Earcuff of Phalanx isn't getting love because many of the players on the forums posting about already have Icecrag and Earcuff of Orbits (two BIS) for most builds.

But what about the player trying to move up to UR? They don't want to spend $200 and someone might get this as a random or treasure box pull it is instantly +2 AC. Or they could trade someone who did get it.

I don't think it is a top tier desired but it sure is BIS for someone that doesn't have the huge token collection or cash resources.

Ed

Phrash wrote: Charm of the Quick Strike needs help. Especially since (correct me if I am wrong) you only roll initiative once in Grind.

*Edit: After talking with a Grind party member, I think we may have rolled for initiative twice in Grind this year.

I would not have this take up a valuable charm slot for an effect that would be unlikely to trigger.

I agree it is not a Grind item, it is best suited as Dungeon item. Rarely are tokens just designed for Grind, rather the token is designed an then Grind DM use them in their design.

Ed

Harlax wrote:

Picc wrote:

David Harris wrote:
Agree with other no Rogues on the +2 Holy Avenger, please.

Ouch, well you know what fine. We'll go make our own sword

I wonder if Rogue was added to make it Ranger off hand capable?

Ya think?

Phrash wrote: Charm of the Quick Strike needs help. Especially since (correct me if I am wrong) you only roll initiative once in Grind.

*Edit: After talking with a Grind party member, I think we may have rolled for initiative twice in Grind this year.

I would not have this take up a valuable charm slot for an effect that would be unlikely to trigger.

It’s usually once per room (so 4 or 5 times) but this year felt very rushed for some reason. We had a lot we were trying to pack in, so we usually just gave it to the party.

Mike Steele wrote:

The Falcon wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: It's not too late to bring Barrelbane down to +4/-2/-2

As it is I'd say it's the best melee token at UR ever printed within it's token ecosystem at the time it was printed:

+3/+3 to melee for -1 AC, Ranged to-hit, Reflex, Fort, and 5 HP

Compare with Relic Girdle of Frost Giant Strength:

+2 or 3 to melee hit and damage, depending on final attribute score.

Or Legendary Surtr's Girdle:

+3 or 4 to melee hit and damage, depending on final attribute score.


Gloves of the Brute are nominally better, but since you can get +2 STR or damage gloves at Rare the Kilt is better as it allows you to stack higher.

Agree. Barrelbane should be +4/-2/-2

+4/-2/-2 is great for ultra rare.

That doesn't seem great to me for a UR. There are hand, neck and waist URs that to me are clearly better than that.

The most powerful melee slots at UR and below are:

Hand
Waist
Neck

So unless we're trying to make Pants into one of the top 3 melee slots the fact that there are more powerful items in those other lots shouldn't bother us.

I'd even take +4, -2, -1 or +4, -1, -1 or something. Just don't let's add a Relic level waist slot STR booster in a new slot at UR.

Picc wrote:

David Harris wrote:
Agree with other no Rogues on the +2 Holy Avenger, please.

Ouch, well you know what fine. We'll go make our own sword

...with blackjack! ...and hookers!

In fact, forget the sword.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

The Falcon wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: It's not too late to bring Barrelbane down to +4/-2/-2

As it is I'd say it's the best melee token at UR ever printed within it's token ecosystem at the time it was printed:

+3/+3 to melee for -1 AC, Ranged to-hit, Reflex, Fort, and 5 HP

Compare with Relic Girdle of Frost Giant Strength:

+2 or 3 to melee hit and damage, depending on final attribute score.

Or Legendary Surtr's Girdle:

+3 or 4 to melee hit and damage, depending on final attribute score.


Gloves of the Brute are nominally better, but since you can get +2 STR or damage gloves at Rare the Kilt is better as it allows you to stack higher.

Agree. Barrelbane should be +4/-2/-2

+4/-2/-2 is great for ultra rare.

That doesn't seem great to me for a UR. There are hand, neck and waist URs that to me are clearly better than that.

The most powerful melee slots at UR and below are:

Hand
Waist
Neck

So unless we're trying to make Pants into one of the top 3 melee slots the fact that there are more powerful items in those other lots shouldn't bother us.

I'd even take +4, -2, -1 or +4, -1, -1 or something. Just don't let's add a Relic level waist slot STR booster in a new slot at UR.

The non-symmetry of the first two really complicates things. The number totals say that the STR kilt should be +4STR -2CON. Which i think works just fine. Otherwise, you stick to the +6 version, and the numbers just dont work for the negatives, so do whatever...maybe try to total -4?

Or, if you really want to be cheeky: +6STR,-2CON,-2STR.

MasterED wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Nor would I.

I also don't think many will be equipping this at all unfortunately. AC is nowhere near as important as many other stats.

I think the Earcuff of Phalanx isn't getting love because many of the players on the forums posting about already have Icecrag and Earcuff of Orbits (two BIS) for most builds.

But what about the player trying to move up to UR? They don't want to spend $200 and someone might get this as a random or treasure box pull it is instantly +2 AC. Or they could trade someone who did get it.

I don't think it is a top tier desired but it sure is BIS for someone that doesn't have the huge token collection or cash resources.

Ed

Perhaps. But if you are $250 order person, is there any chance you take this as your one UR?

kurtreznor wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

The Falcon wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: It's not too late to bring Barrelbane down to +4/-2/-2

As it is I'd say it's the best melee token at UR ever printed within it's token ecosystem at the time it was printed:

+3/+3 to melee for -1 AC, Ranged to-hit, Reflex, Fort, and 5 HP

Compare with Relic Girdle of Frost Giant Strength:

+2 or 3 to melee hit and damage, depending on final attribute score.

Or Legendary Surtr's Girdle:

+3 or 4 to melee hit and damage, depending on final attribute score.


Gloves of the Brute are nominally better, but since you can get +2 STR or damage gloves at Rare the Kilt is better as it allows you to stack higher.

Agree. Barrelbane should be +4/-2/-2

+4/-2/-2 is great for ultra rare.

That doesn't seem great to me for a UR. There are hand, neck and waist URs that to me are clearly better than that.

The most powerful melee slots at UR and below are:

Hand
Waist
Neck

So unless we're trying to make Pants into one of the top 3 melee slots the fact that there are more powerful items in those other lots shouldn't bother us.

I'd even take +4, -2, -1 or +4, -1, -1 or something. Just don't let's add a Relic level waist slot STR booster in a new slot at UR.

The non-symmetry of the first two really complicates things. The number totals say that the STR kilt should be +4STR -2CON. Which i think works just fine. Otherwise, you stick to the +6 version, and the numbers just dont work for the negatives, so do whatever...maybe try to total -4?

Or, if you really want to be cheeky: +6STR,-2CON,-2STR.

Good point: +4 STR, -2 CON is reasonable given Fiendish Charm at Rare.