TOPIC: 2019 Transmuted Token Images!

I would mostly be using the kilt as a strength variant so it doesn't bother me much as is at +5. Despite being an issue for those doing programming I think being a +6 of your choice and -1 of your choice would make the con variant users happy while still maintaining the net +5 bonus. Alternatively you could do a set three bonuses that have a set three negatives and give everyone a choice of one of the three as they have currently to get the +6 number back. I think leaving it a flat +6 to any stat of your choice and -1 of your choice definitely makes the token very desirable in the future when the other stats will matter more. I would also be for the decision of pushing back the transmute a year and getting a 4th kilt to make it even more like the other eldritch pieces.

I like the bead at +3 and free movement. I also like it in the bead slot as ioun stones are going to be highly contested here soon. Although that is probably me just being greedy and wanting free movement back when I make the kilt.

I'm happy the rogue legendary moved slots (even though the UR didn't?). I'd rather it be a head or back slot though. Getting back crit immunity would be nice as it would free up my bracer slot again. Alternatively it might not be a bad secondary ability to increase sneak attack damage by some amount. Range sneak attack would help some builds although I'm sure most rogues are melee based currently. But honestly for those using Thor's for range sneak having the 18-20 range is kinda irrelevant. For those using Asher's it is kinda nice though.

The lute is far more balanced at +2/+2.

It was mentioned by Jeff that Barbarians, Monks, and Paladins are up next year.

I am behind on this thread, but i just noticed what might be a 'problem' with the rogue amulet.

First, a clarification: if you equip only the legendary nightshade sneaky sapphire necklace and a short sword, are your 2 sneak attacks on round 1 and round 2 (i think/hope this is correct), or are they round 2 and round 3 (only bypassing the delay on 2nd SA)?

If rounds 1 and 2, then the relic necklace of the sneak is a bit awkward as currently worded. It only lets you bypass the 1 round delay 2/game (during those 2 combats that you use your 2nd SA). So, the rogue will probably still want to wear an item that lets them bypass the 1 round delay for other combats, meaning that ability on the relic doesnt really do anything.
Also, what if you want to use the necklace, so you SA round 1, but the monster is dead before you do a 2nd SA...did you use one of your 2/game activations of the necklace?

So, i THINK the intention is to bypass the 1 round delay all the time, but you only get the 2nd SA 2/game. If so, change wording to "crit 19-20 on all SA without 1 rd delay/may sneak attack 2nd time against same monster (2/game)"

kurtreznor wrote:
So, i THINK the intention is to bypass the 1 round delay all the time, but you only get the 2nd SA 2/game. If so, change wording to "crit 19-20 on all SA without 1 rd delay/may sneak attack 2nd time against same monster (2/game)"

This was how I read it as well.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Edward Deangelis wrote: I don't really care much about Kilt. I think it's fine. But I am more looking at the lute. I mean it gives +1/+1 Going up to a +2/+2 which and that reroll once per game. But that seems like a whole lot to dump. When I already get a +2 to damage with the UR version. It just seems, like to gain a +2 to hit and then a reroll just for the bard. I don't think what it currently does justifies how much it is going to cost to make.

It also gives you the effects of WIdseth's, Briano's, and Amorgen's instruments, and Lyre of Lore.

It also gives you never before available Bard abilities of drinking potions and using wands while doing Bardsong.


I think +4/+4 to the party with 5th level barsong is flat out amazing.

One bard with 2 tokens (This lute and something to get to 5th level) can join a PuG and turn it into easy mode.

I don't usually craft Legendaries for my non-main classes, but I'll be getting this for sure.

As someone that sometimes plays Bard in Grind, I'm seriously thinking of keeping the separate instruments (depending on how they fit into the recipe). Combining them into one just means Incognito can shatter/steal a single instrument instead of having to spend multiple rounds trying to make you less effective.

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Edward Deangelis wrote: I don't really care much about Kilt. I think it's fine. But I am more looking at the lute. I mean it gives +1/+1 Going up to a +2/+2 which and that reroll once per game. But that seems like a whole lot to dump. When I already get a +2 to damage with the UR version. It just seems, like to gain a +2 to hit and then a reroll just for the bard. I don't think what it currently does justifies how much it is going to cost to make.

It also gives you the effects of WIdseth's, Briano's, and Amorgen's instruments, and Lyre of Lore.

It also gives you never before available Bard abilities of drinking potions and using wands while doing Bardsong.


I think +4/+4 to the party with 5th level barsong is flat out amazing.

One bard with 2 tokens (This lute and something to get to 5th level) can join a PuG and turn it into easy mode.

I don't usually craft Legendaries for my non-main classes, but I'll be getting this for sure.

As someone that sometimes plays Bard in Grind, I'm seriously thinking of keeping the separate instruments (depending on how they fit into the recipe). Combining them into one just means Incognito can shatter/steal a single instrument instead of having to spend multiple rounds trying to make you less effective.

Given this years items I'm not even sure if the old instruments will be used in the main recipe (I hope there's an alt recipe though)

It might not be a popular idea, but as I think about it, it might be cool if class specific legendaries required hunting down old class defining items like a nightshade sword, or a holy great sword, widseths, MEC, LoDs, etc

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Edward Deangelis wrote: I don't really care much about Kilt. I think it's fine. But I am more looking at the lute. I mean it gives +1/+1 Going up to a +2/+2 which and that reroll once per game. But that seems like a whole lot to dump. When I already get a +2 to damage with the UR version. It just seems, like to gain a +2 to hit and then a reroll just for the bard. I don't think what it currently does justifies how much it is going to cost to make.

It also gives you the effects of WIdseth's, Briano's, and Amorgen's instruments, and Lyre of Lore.

It also gives you never before available Bard abilities of drinking potions and using wands while doing Bardsong.


I think +4/+4 to the party with 5th level barsong is flat out amazing.

One bard with 2 tokens (This lute and something to get to 5th level) can join a PuG and turn it into easy mode.

I don't usually craft Legendaries for my non-main classes, but I'll be getting this for sure.

As someone that sometimes plays Bard in Grind, I'm seriously thinking of keeping the separate instruments (depending on how they fit into the recipe). Combining them into one just means Incognito can shatter/steal a single instrument instead of having to spend multiple rounds trying to make you less effective.

+1 to that Fiddy... breaking of bard instruments or weapons in grind can suck. Weapons you can at least use the runestone that prevents harmful effects on weapons, but that lute is subject to being broken by Grind.

JACKOFTRADZE wrote:

Picc wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: This thread should be renamed 50 shades of Dungeonbane Kilt LOL. It's +5 to stat of choice and the revised Eldritch benefits have been lowered...for three UR's that seems fair.

The Sneaky Necklace is what really needs some work.
At the end of the day all you get for everything traded in and given up is one extra BS per combat and a lowered crit range. (Thor's hammer gives you that already with 19-20.) The New Hood gives you +1 AC and no 1 round delay, your not saving a slot or consolidating. So no benefit there.

It really needs the Ranged Backstab or the Guided Strike powers back to make it worthwhile. Lose the 18-20 Crit range in exchange. for one of these at least. My choice would be the Guided Strike and make that one of the ingredients needed.

Sneak attacking the same monster a 2nd time is a new ability right?

I was assuming this item eliminated all crit/sneak immunity while you are sneaking - so I though it basically included bracers of guided strike (I mean, I guess on round 3 it gains crit immunity again...)

Yes, 2nd time is new.

It used to remove the Crit immunity but that power and the ranged Backstab power was removed in Rd2. The lowered Crit Range 18-20 was added in. I really think the crit immunity needs to come back this item to make it worthwhile and Legendary.

Thanks for acknowledging something this as its all Kilt talk lol

If it keeps the immunity removal and 19-20 crit is that worth the legendary slot? Would 18-20 and the immunity be worth it?

I assume the immunity is the main thing Rogues want as a secondary ability?

Honestly it's fine as is IMO if it were to get back crit immunity I think it should loose extended crit range. But really the 2nd backstab without delay is the important part.

It's not. I agree on lowering or losing the extended crit range in exchange for the immunity power. 1 round delay is no issue with Hood of Elvenkind. The new Hood of Shadows gives you that and +1AC. If you have Thors Hammer your crit range is already 19-20.

1 extra back stab and a lower crit range is not worth the price of a Legendary and losing a valuable neck slot.

Wha..i...WHAT? So...
*1 round delay is not important because there is an item that already gives that.
*crit range is not important because there is an item that gives that.
BUT
*bypass crit immumity IS important even though there is an item that gives that (and still available as PYP)
*2nd sneak attack is not important despite being a brand new ability that gives the biggest damage boost a rogue can get

...? I am at a loss how else to respond to this.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: So I assume I am alone in this feeling but the Iktomi’s Shaper's Necklace seems REALLY weak as a legendary token in my opinion. It feels a lot more like a relic level token at the legendary level and that the legendary level should add some other benefit. At the neck slot it's a lot to sacrifice given all the other strong items for that slot to gain a damage resistance bonus and access to elemental type for damage, which doesn't apply to spells cast in that form. It's nice for Druids who want to do shapeshifting, it's a cool item for a shifter Druid. Personally I have never encountered a single player who plays a shapeshifter Druid. I assume there are some but most I encounter are spell swapped pure damage or hybird healer caster. Am I just not encountering many druids?

Interesting take - I've been thinking I might pick up druid with this thing.

Hit harder than a Fighter with a +5 weapon, have -10 DR to an element choice in each room, and still cast spells?

Not saying you should like it - but it's got me thinking of polymorphing seriously for the first time since I learned you can't do wands/objects while polymorphed.

Yes, a polymorph druid can hit hard like a barbarian...BUT, has a much lower to-hit than fighter/barbar types.

As to this being legendary, as a player who does play polymorph druid (mostly my wife, but i will as well when on my own), it is the potion ability that tempts me to make this item. Maybe it could use a boost, maybe not...im still wondering how the relic ability will shake out based on my questions last night.

FiannaTiger wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Edward Deangelis wrote: I don't really care much about Kilt. I think it's fine. But I am more looking at the lute. I mean it gives +1/+1 Going up to a +2/+2 which and that reroll once per game. But that seems like a whole lot to dump. When I already get a +2 to damage with the UR version. It just seems, like to gain a +2 to hit and then a reroll just for the bard. I don't think what it currently does justifies how much it is going to cost to make.

It also gives you the effects of WIdseth's, Briano's, and Amorgen's instruments, and Lyre of Lore.

It also gives you never before available Bard abilities of drinking potions and using wands while doing Bardsong.


I think +4/+4 to the party with 5th level barsong is flat out amazing.

One bard with 2 tokens (This lute and something to get to 5th level) can join a PuG and turn it into easy mode.

I don't usually craft Legendaries for my non-main classes, but I'll be getting this for sure.

As someone that sometimes plays Bard in Grind, I'm seriously thinking of keeping the separate instruments (depending on how they fit into the recipe). Combining them into one just means Incognito can shatter/steal a single instrument instead of having to spend multiple rounds trying to make you less effective.

+1 to that Fiddy... breaking of bard instruments or weapons in grind can suck. Weapons you can at least use the runestone that prevents harmful effects on weapons, but that lute is subject to being broken by Grind.

Im sure Eric can come up with a way around it (gumming the strings or something) but what it we made the bard legendary instrument Indestructible.

Picc wrote:

FiannaTiger wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Edward Deangelis wrote: I don't really care much about Kilt. I think it's fine. But I am more looking at the lute. I mean it gives +1/+1 Going up to a +2/+2 which and that reroll once per game. But that seems like a whole lot to dump. When I already get a +2 to damage with the UR version. It just seems, like to gain a +2 to hit and then a reroll just for the bard. I don't think what it currently does justifies how much it is going to cost to make.

It also gives you the effects of WIdseth's, Briano's, and Amorgen's instruments, and Lyre of Lore.

It also gives you never before available Bard abilities of drinking potions and using wands while doing Bardsong.


I think +4/+4 to the party with 5th level barsong is flat out amazing.

One bard with 2 tokens (This lute and something to get to 5th level) can join a PuG and turn it into easy mode.

I don't usually craft Legendaries for my non-main classes, but I'll be getting this for sure.

As someone that sometimes plays Bard in Grind, I'm seriously thinking of keeping the separate instruments (depending on how they fit into the recipe). Combining them into one just means Incognito can shatter/steal a single instrument instead of having to spend multiple rounds trying to make you less effective.

+1 to that Fiddy... breaking of bard instruments or weapons in grind can suck. Weapons you can at least use the runestone that prevents harmful effects on weapons, but that lute is subject to being broken by Grind.

Im sure Eric can come up with a way around it (gumming the strings or something) but what it we made the bard legendary instrument Indestructible.

Pretty sure he would just make the room silent so you couldn't hear it to get the bonus.

Then Eric will just fix the problem by shattering the *bard*, who is most likely not indestructible.