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TOPIC: 2019 Transmuted Token Images!

2019 Transmuted Token Images! 1 year 4 months ago #121

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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 1 year 4 months ago #122

Rob F wrote:

Harlax wrote: We are going in circles at this point, so I'm getting off the merry go round.

It needs to stay a bead.


Ioun Stone. ;)


Because it makes the choice more difficult? I can see that.

At +2 and free movement, as an Ioun Stone I don't see it getting used much.
At +3 and free movement, as an Ioun Stone, I think it would see a fair bit of use.

At +2 and free movement, as a bead, I do see it getting used quite often.
At +3 and free movement, as a bead, I think it would be the best possible option for a LONG time.
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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 1 year 4 months ago #123

Kakitahan wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I still have my concerns about the power level of the whetstone. I still think it may obsolete a bunch of UR weapons. I just think TD should think long and hard before making it. If it applies to all weapons it would be a better token for everyone and URs would be still as much better than rares as they currently are.


I feel this can be balanced through cost of the recipe. If the recipe is accost close to a UR’s value cost then i feel there should not be any issues. It is great to see a rare level build can close the break into the ultra rare build tier.


If the cost was in the ballpark compared to a UR to take a rare to UR level basically then I would be a supporter

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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 1 year 4 months ago #124

Bead bead bead!

Well - I guess if it’s a vote the beads have it...

I suspect there is going to be some remorse in the next few years when the transmute gets kicked out of builds by a rare +1 focus bead or an ultra rare +2 to melee bead...

Or even worse when people campaign against good UR or rares in the bead slot because it would shake up their build.


One last stab at it : from 2018 it looks like beads are an offensive slot.

Iouns are a defensive slot.

This is a defensive token.

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Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.

2019 Transmuted Token Images! 1 year 4 months ago #125

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Matthew Hayward wrote: Bead bead bead!

Well - I guess if it’s a vote the beads have it...

I suspect there is going to be some remorse in the next few years when the transmute gets kicked out of builds by a rare +1 focus bead or an ultra rare +2 to melee bead...

Or even worse when people campaign against good UR or rares in the bead slot because it would shake up their build.



Honestly I would love to see either of those beads get made, though I would value the saves more highly.
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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 1 year 4 months ago #126

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Matthew Hayward wrote: Bead bead bead!

Well - I guess if it’s a vote the beads have it...

I suspect there is going to be some remorse in the next few years when the transmute gets kicked out of builds by a rare +1 focus bead or an ultra rare +2 to melee bead...

Or even worse when people campaign against good UR or rares in the bead slot because it would shake up their build.


There is only one vote that counts. And he is AFK today. ;)
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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 1 year 4 months ago #127

I will throw my 2 pennies in... bead

Also I think that the +5 on the kilt is just fine. I can also see that some will want to keep their +6 kilts and live with the negatives, and that is their choice. Statistically the eldritch is better (if you don't ignore the negative), but for min-maxers that extra point is key.
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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 1 year 4 months ago #128

FiannaTiger wrote: I will throw my 2 pennies in... bead

Also I think that the +5 on the kilt is just fine. I can also see that some will want to keep their +6 kilts and live with the negatives, and that is their choice. Statistically the eldritch is better (if you don't ignore the negative), but for min-maxers that extra point is key.


Min makers come out exactly even on damage damage too due to the set bonus unless kilt is their only piece.

+1 melee to hit for -3 dex, -3 con, -1 to ranged and spell damage, -2 to healing spells is very exciting to the monsters in the dungeon I imagine...

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Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.

2019 Transmuted Token Images! 1 year 4 months ago #129

I think the kilt should be +6 since the components are +6. If that is too powerful for the price instead of nerfing the kilt, make the recipe more expensive. If people feel like 3 Ultra Rare tokens is not enough, maybe require a 4th Ultra Rare. The recipe could require any UR pants, or even just a 4th Ultra Rare, your choice you can use anything.

It feels like at the very least the combined item should be equal to the sum of its parts, if those parts are +6, the result should be at least +6.

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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 1 year 4 months ago #130

For those who think the kilt would be too good at +6, can you explain why? Is it because of you are primarily concerned about inflated combat stats, AC, saves, or HP?

My theory is that the +5 camp consists of folks who worry most about impact on combat stats. Admittedly, +6 to str and dex (which impact combat stats) seems strong. And for these folks, the drop below 6 only costs a single point of hit/damage. Maybe not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

My theory is that the +6 camp consists of folks who worry most about HP and don’t really care at all about hit, damage, AC, or saves. For these folks, the drop below 6 feels worse because it is 5 HP. Perhaps worth fighting over.

If I am right, then couldn’t we make everyone happy with a comprise kilt with +4 (or +5) to one stat and +5 HP? That way we can avoid inflating combat stats, AC, and saves while still allowing Tavernbane wearers to maintain status quo HP.

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Last edit: by Boilerplate.

2019 Transmuted Token Images! 1 year 4 months ago #131

Kenban wrote: I think the kilt should be +6 since the components are +6. If that is too powerful for the price instead of nerfing the kilt, make the recipe more expensive. If people feel like 3 Ultra Rare tokens is not enough, maybe require a 4th Ultra Rare. The recipe could require any UR pants, or even just a 4th Ultra Rare, your choice you can use anything.

It feels like at the very least the combined item should be equal to the sum of its parts, if those parts are +6, the result should be at least +6.


For it to be the sum of its parts, you've got to subtract 14 from the end total. So you're left with 4.
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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 1 year 4 months ago #132

Matthew Hayward wrote:

FiannaTiger wrote: I will throw my 2 pennies in... bead

Also I think that the +5 on the kilt is just fine. I can also see that some will want to keep their +6 kilts and live with the negatives, and that is their choice. Statistically the eldritch is better (if you don't ignore the negative), but for min-maxers that extra point is key.


Min makers come out exactly even on damage damage too due to the set bonus unless kilt is their only piece.

+1 melee to hit for -3 dex, -3 con, -1 to ranged and spell damage, -2 to healing spells is very exciting to the monsters in the dungeon I imagine...


This is a REALLY good point, Matthew! The Fatherbane and Barrelbane wearers (who equip at least one other eldritch item) can better handle the drop below +6 because they recoup the damage reduction with the eldritch damage bonus. That is not the case for Tavernbane wearers because there is no eldritch bonus for HP. More reason why Tavernbane wearers are more bummed about the kilt design than the str/dex folks.

So here is another compromise idea. Go with the +5 kilt as currently designed, but add a +5 HP as an additional eldritch bonus for the two piece eldritch set. Fixed.

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