TOPIC: 2019 Ultra Rare Token Images!

James J Krot wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Matt Goodman wrote: Regarding fixed fate.

. I read that people were comparing fixed fate to Thor's. Please reread that sentence. This token is so good, people are comparing it, an ultra-rare, to Thor's, a legendary! If that doesn't concern people, I don't know what will.

.

You may be counting me as one of those people. I chose to make Thor's last year rather than Welfor's.

This moved my Dwarf Fighter build from sad joke at ranged to a "hey you can can hit on something other than 20." And that hit would get STR bonuses. I hit from Thor's would be significantly better. If I used Fate, I might hit more often, but for a lot less damage.

Which is better? Mostly, my desire was to get something cool and to not feel useless if I was forced to go ranged. Thor's did that. Fate would do that too.

As the cleric the only time I ever tried a range attack with my sling was against the dreaded gazebo.

Luckily, us Clerics can rely on our plethora of ranged combat spells if ranged combat happens.

kurtreznor wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Should we be decreasing the UR strength kilt to +4 STR, -2 Dex, -2 Con?

I think getting +6 Str in this slot, whatever the drawbacks, seems too good for a UR.

Compare to gloves of the brute, +5 Str, -2 Dex in the hands slot.

This seems too good right now.

+4 str & -2 con gives a net +2 to all three stats when adding the three kilts together.

I like that overall. My concern is that +4 Str, -2 Con is too good at the UR level in the legs slot. Maybe I'm off, but that feels better than hands (+5 Str/-2 Dex, or +4 Str) and waist (+3 Str, +4 Str/-1 Dex).

Fiddy wrote:

James J Krot wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Matt Goodman wrote: Regarding fixed fate.

. I read that people were comparing fixed fate to Thor's. Please reread that sentence. This token is so good, people are comparing it, an ultra-rare, to Thor's, a legendary! If that doesn't concern people, I don't know what will.

.

You may be counting me as one of those people. I chose to make Thor's last year rather than Welfor's.

This moved my Dwarf Fighter build from sad joke at ranged to a "hey you can can hit on something other than 20." And that hit would get STR bonuses. I hit from Thor's would be significantly better. If I used Fate, I might hit more often, but for a lot less damage.

Which is better? Mostly, my desire was to get something cool and to not feel useless if I was forced to go ranged. Thor's did that. Fate would do that too.

As the cleric the only time I ever tried a range attack with my sling was against the dreaded gazebo.

Luckily, us Clerics can rely on our plethora of ranged combat spells if ranged combat happens.

Chuckle I generally buff or I start leaping.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Should we be decreasing the UR strength kilt to +4 STR, -2 Dex, -2 Con?

I think getting +6 Str in this slot, whatever the drawbacks, seems too good for a UR.

Compare to gloves of the brute, +5 Str, -2 Dex in the hands slot.

This seems too good right now.

I think a lot of the discussions on the other thread are whether to drop the UR Kilt and correspondingly the Transmute Kilt St bonus. Both 4 st and 5 St have been discussed. Personally I still think 6 St is reasonable, but I could go with 5 St. 4 St seems WAY too low to me for a transmute Kilt. There are URs that are at or near that level.

You know, we keep hearing about how important it is to keep +6 CON and +6 DEX, and how devastating it would be for those stats to go down, but noone is jumping in insisting that they need +6 STR. Im thinking maybe we have it backwards. Maybe STR is the weak stat that could use a little extra boost. The kilts should probably give +8 STR to keep things fair.

kurtreznor wrote: You know, we keep hearing about how important it is to keep +6 CON and +6 DEX, and how devastating it would be for those stats to go down, but noone is jumping in insisting that they need +6 STR. Im thinking maybe we have it backwards. Maybe STR is the weak stat that could use a little extra boost. The kilts should probably give +8 STR to keep things fair.

LOL!

kurtreznor wrote: You know, we keep hearing about how important it is to keep +6 CON and +6 DEX, and how devastating it would be for those stats to go down, but noone is jumping in insisting that they need +6 STR. Im thinking maybe we have it backwards. Maybe STR is the weak stat that could use a little extra boost. The kilts should probably give +8 STR to keep things fair.

I think no one really cares about the strength kilt because a majority are planning on transmuting it immediately.

If this was not the last token in the transmute, I would assume there would be a lot more people arguing for +6 str, -2 dex, -2 con. It's current form with net 0 stats is where the dex kilt started last year and was changed after the outcry.

Regarding the Tome (and disclaimer up front I've only skimmed the posts)

- I didn't like the auto skill check bypass feature, at all. Why? Because if you don't want to do the check your spells still work. It's a bonus if you do and get it right. Don't like the memory test? Well hate to say it but that's part of how Jeff designed the game. Don't do it. Or don't play that class. Your spell still works. I don't see why this is even a big deal. It's a damn good slotless Token, people should be happy.

- That being said, Jeff set a skill check breaking precedent with the Rogue's Crowbar. But at least there's a negative associated with using it. You want a hall pass on your skill check? Then Bam!!! Take some damage. No free lunch for you. And if Rogues decide not to do their skill check at all - no clue, no treasure, you get a big fat bag of nothing. So casters are already ahead of the game when deciding to do nothing.

- But if Jeff wants to lend a hand to the memory impaired casters (and yes I'm one of them, my memory sucks big time) then give them the same conditions as the Crowbar. Auto pass - Bam!!! Take a lot of damage. Or instead let them retry the check and each time they do and guess wrong - Bam!! Take a little damage. No free lunches!!!

Phrash wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: You know, we keep hearing about how important it is to keep +6 CON and +6 DEX, and how devastating it would be for those stats to go down, but noone is jumping in insisting that they need +6 STR. Im thinking maybe we have it backwards. Maybe STR is the weak stat that could use a little extra boost. The kilts should probably give +8 STR to keep things fair.

I think no one really cares about the strength kilt because a majority are planning on transmuting it immediately.

If this was not the last token in the transmute, I would assume there would be a lot more people arguing for +6 str, -2 dex, -2 con. It's current form with net 0 stats is where the dex kilt started last year and was changed after the outcry.

I think part of it is the art kilt is out yet, no one has spent money on it so no one can reasonably say "I won't trade it in because I'm loosing str".

In terms of the value of the stats, Str is IMO the most valuable because it comes up so often. Up until this point we have had 4 str gloves at UR, 5str gloves with a downside, and a 4str with a downside belt that replaced a 3 str belt at UR.

Based on those numbers I feel like 4 or 5 with a downside are the right numbers. Personally I would prefer a flat 4 since it would be a easier in coaching and still quite potent.

That said I won't cry to much either way since as people have pointed out in most cases it's just going to get transmuted right away.

Rob F wrote: Regarding the Tome (and disclaimer up front I've only skimmed the posts)

- I didn't like the auto skill check bypass feature, at all. Why? Because if you don't want to do the check your spells still work. It's a bonus if you do and get it right. Don't like the memory test? Well hate to say it but that's part of how Jeff designed the game. Don't do it. Or don't play that class. Your spell still works. I don't see why this is even a big deal. It's a damn good slotless Token, people should be happy.

- That being said, Jeff set a skill check breaking precedent with the Rogue's Crowbar. But at least there's a negative associated with using it. You want a hall pass on your skill check? Then Bam!!! Take some damage. No free lunch for you. And if Rogues decide not to do their skill check at all - no clue, no treasure, you get a big fat bag of nothing. So casters are already ahead of the game when deciding to do nothing.

- But if Jeff wants to lend a hand to the memory impaired casters (and yes I'm one of them, my memory sucks big time) then give them the same conditions as the Crowbar. Auto pass - Bam!!! Take a lot of damage. Or instead let them retry the check and each time they do and guess wrong - Bam!! Take a little damage. No free lunches!!!

Generally agree - the point you make about helping with skill checks... there are already a paths out there. Pearl of Planes - Pearl of Prayer. A figurine that gives auto pass once per game....

I’d add something.... as stated many times already - the spell works either way... and only a portion of the spells require the memory challenge....

So if auto pass is truly that important - let it become its own token... and don’t have it cross into a focus item.....

Grekel! wrote:

Rob F wrote: Regarding the Tome (and disclaimer up front I've only skimmed the posts)

- I didn't like the auto skill check bypass feature, at all. Why? Because if you don't want to do the check your spells still work. It's a bonus if you do and get it right. Don't like the memory test? Well hate to say it but that's part of how Jeff designed the game. Don't do it. Or don't play that class. Your spell still works. I don't see why this is even a big deal. It's a damn good slotless Token, people should be happy.

- That being said, Jeff set a skill check breaking precedent with the Rogue's Crowbar. But at least there's a negative associated with using it. You want a hall pass on your skill check? Then Bam!!! Take some damage. No free lunch for you. And if Rogues decide not to do their skill check at all - no clue, no treasure, you get a big fat bag of nothing. So casters are already ahead of the game when deciding to do nothing.

- But if Jeff wants to lend a hand to the memory impaired casters (and yes I'm one of them, my memory sucks big time) then give them the same conditions as the Crowbar. Auto pass - Bam!!! Take a lot of damage. Or instead let them retry the check and each time they do and guess wrong - Bam!! Take a little damage. No free lunches!!!

Generally agree - the point you make about helping with skill checks... there are already a paths out there. Pearl of Planes - Pearl of Prayer. A figurine that gives auto pass once per game....

I’d add something.... as stated many times already - the spell works either way... and only a portion of the spells require the memory challenge....

So if auto pass is truly that important - let it become its own token... and don’t have it cross into a focus item.....

I'd be OK with that, except I'd turn it around, and make this token just the auto-pass token, and leave the focus out. It would be nice if this were a really unique token instead of just another focus token. Although I prefer it combined auto-pass and focus, so it has something for those that want to do the skill test.

Here's some of my thoughts on the various tokens. I'll sneak it in before Jeff does Rev 3.

+2 Death Flail: Auto-kill always worries me a bit, but at least it's only for the first slide of the room. Those spikes in the picture don't look very Cleric-compatible.

+2 Holy Avengers: It kind of seems like this should be saved for next year, when the transmute is available, so this is orderable as a PYP for the entire time the Relic is allowed to be made. By releasing it now, it will be out of print while the Relic is still open to be made.

Charm of Quick Strike: Maybe the odds of getting that bonus combat slide should increase if there are more than one Charm of Quick Strike outfitted in the party? As it is, it will feel like a waste of a slot if multiple people come with it outfitted.

Charm of Spell Swapping: Good straight reprint.

Cloak of Shadowskin: I think this is still overpowered. It is only +1 Saves less than the Greater Cloak or Druegar's Cloak, and I think the ability to stop a Melee or Missile hit is worth more than +1 Saves. Maybe change the saves portion to just +1.

Dark Disciple's Shirt: I like that, even if the Eldritch Tooth token gives you psychic ability (and I think it should), this shirt is still useful by letting you do it a second time. Maybe it should say "additional time" instead of "2nd time" in case another token sometime also lets you get an additional use. Unless you want to make sure it doesn't stack, in which case the wording is perfect.

Earcuff of the Phalanx: I think this is a good token - even if only one is outfitted, +2 AC seems pretty powerful. Although - is it overpowered if all 10 are outfitted? At that point, it's equivalent to a UR +1 Tower Shield, which seems pretty high.

Eternal Ice Crystal: Should this have a damage wheel in case the Ranger outfits it? Otherwise, it is unusable for the Ranger. Although, I think it probably should be unusable to the Ranger (and Monk I guess), or it gives +3 damage to both attacks, increasing the damage advantage the Ranger has.

Fixed Fate Lt Crossbow: I think this token has the potential to negatively impact future Dungeon design, by auto hitting in situations where ranged is restricted. The Damage Wheel is also too high for a light Crossbow. Maybe it would be OK if it says no "to hit" or "damage" modifiers are applied to it. It might be best to just reprint the +2 Mighty Short Bow.

Gregor's Tome of Focus: I MUCH prefer the version that includes the auto-pass on skill check. I think that makes it a very unique and worthy token, instead of just a Focus token. Make the auto-pass portion optional, so that those that want to do the skill test still can. Win-Win.

Hat of Hellway: Looks good, as does the new Ioun Stone.

Kilt of Barrelbane: I like it just like this, and I'd like the transmute to be the option of +6 to any of the three. But, if you feel you need to lower the ST on the transmute, go ahead and drop this to +5 St, and make the transmute +5 St or +6 Dex or +6 Con.

Lenses of Divine Sight: Very disappointing change. Why not throw a bone to those with the old version and make it more powerful, give it +4 to healing and splits spells. That's still WAY below the original power, and shouldn't be any kind of game warping token anymore.

Mad Evoker's Charm: I know this isn't in the list, but as long as you're "correcting" overpowered 2014 tokens, I think you should correct this one too. It's WAY too powerful for a UR token. Maybe remove the damage to the user and allow it to be used just once per combat. That will still give it more bonus damage per combat than almost any other UR token. You can put a corrected version of this in the set, and save the Paladin sword for next year.

Lute of Fury: It's a balanced token, more powerful than the other UR Lutes, but it doesn't let you take an additional action.

Questor's Charm of Luck: Good reprint

Ring of Jealous Heroism: I think it's OK now that it also takes away the hands slot item.

Ring of the Yeti: Good token for non-spell ranged attack. Maybe it should include Melee also?

Shaman's Belt: I really like this, but I don't think it should include Wizards, because this is the Class specific Druid token. I think Druids should be able to do polymorph best. If Wizards are included on this, it shouldn't work for them as well - maybe have the "free action" part just apply to Druids. None of the other Class specific tokens so far allow another class to use it just as well as the main class. The Bard and Rogue class specific tokens are just them, and the Holy Avenger sword gives the Paladin an instant kill option the other classes don't get. My preference would be to make this Druid-only. Also, I'd recommend making the Air Elemental option able to hit flying creatures, since Air Elementals fly.

Shoes of the Sneak: Very nice Rogue token.

Jeff, thanks again for letting us all provide input, and extra thanks for listening to that input.