TOPIC: 2019 Ultra Rare Token Images!

kurtreznor wrote: So, i think the +5 version of the kilt is plenty good, but for those complaining that it isnt still +6, would you be happy if the eldritch kilt still had a drawback?

Perhaps +6 to your choice str, dex, or con. & -1 to the other two

Or +7 to your choice str, dex, or con. & -2 to the other two
?

I'd be fine if the negatives on the pick one were just reduced rather then removed. That would still feel like an upgrade, but I agree with Mike that for a slam dunk they should just be removed all together.

That said if I could fully have my way we would push the kilt out by one more year and roll in another kilt that made use of whatever Jeff has in store for int/will next year.

kurtreznor wrote: would you be happy if the eldritch kilt still had a drawback?

Perhaps +6 to your choice str, dex, or con. & -1 to the other two

Yup

Brad Mortensen wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: would you be happy if the eldritch kilt still had a drawback?

Perhaps +6 to your choice str, dex, or con. & -1 to the other two

Yup

Nope.

kurtreznor wrote: So, i think the +5 version of the kilt is plenty good, but for those complaining that it isnt still +6, would you be happy if the eldritch kilt still had a drawback?

Perhaps +6 to your choice str, dex, or con. & -1 to the other two

Or +7 to your choice str, dex, or con. & -2 to the other two
?

I'd be happy with the first one... or with a variant of it (+6 to your choice, -2 to your choice). That's a net +4 to stats whereas the first two kilts only grant a net +2 (I think the STR kilt needs to be -2/-2 instead of -3/-3)

The second one is a little undertuned. It's a net +3 to stats, and runs into the odd number problem again. As a Wizard I'd pretty happily take it, but I would probably be unhappy as a sliding class.

isauteikisa wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: So, i think the +5 version of the kilt is plenty good, but for those complaining that it isnt still +6, would you be happy if the eldritch kilt still had a drawback?

Perhaps +6 to your choice str, dex, or con. & -1 to the other two

Or +7 to your choice str, dex, or con. & -2 to the other two
?

I'd be happy with the first one... or with a variant of it (+6 to your choice, -2 to your choice). That's a net +4 to stats whereas the first two kilts only grant a net +2 (I think the STR kilt needs to be -2/-2 instead of -3/-3)

The second one is a little undertuned. It's a net +3 to stats, and runs into the odd number problem again. As a Wizard I'd pretty happily take it, but I would probably be unhappy as a sliding class.

Honestly I'd be happy with a cheap transmute & pick one [stats of an existing kilt]

isauteikisa wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: So, i think the +5 version of the kilt is plenty good, but for those complaining that it isnt still +6, would you be happy if the eldritch kilt still had a drawback?

Perhaps +6 to your choice str, dex, or con. & -1 to the other two

Or +7 to your choice str, dex, or con. & -2 to the other two
?

I'd be happy with the first one... or with a variant of it (+6 to your choice, -2 to your choice). That's a net +4 to stats whereas the first two kilts only grant a net +2 (I think the STR kilt needs to be -2/-2 instead of -3/-3)

The second one is a little undertuned. It's a net +3 to stats, and runs into the odd number problem again. As a Wizard I'd pretty happily take it, but I would probably be unhappy as a sliding class.

I like odd stats - they keep things moving in and out of my builds as the numbers change in other slots.

even stats are more static in a slot there is no reason to fiddle with them unless you are doing a same slot replacement.

The kilt is an interesting debate with people in both camps. As to whether or not the current URs are too powerful, there's only one opinion that matters...Jeff's.

I would like to ask a few questions.
Did anyone keep the 7 individual parts of the rod for situational builds?
Did anyone keep the 4 individual wind boots for situational builds?
Did anyone keep the 4 individual elemental rings for situational builds?

Maybe someone did, but I don't know. It just seems to me that giving us a kilt that doesn't account for how the 3 UR kilts are used is sort of admitting that the kilts may have been too powerful to begin with. But as has been already stated, if the negative stats don't bother you, then by all means keep the 3 kilts and save the trade goods for something else. If the eldritch bonus is more important, then you'll have to go with the transmuted kilt.

The CON/DEX UR gave +6/-4 (net 2) the STR gives net 0. I am really surprised TPTB didn't come out with the Kilt as +2 STR / + 2 DEX / +2 CON. That would have been a net 6 which is clearly better than the 4 and 5 that got adjusted.

I am going to keep my +5 for the one I transmute and I am going to hope it doesn't get changed again.

Ed

My hope when Tavernbane came out was that the other two wouldn't just be stat increasers or would do things like increase Charisma. I didn't expect that hope to be realized. I always wondered how a +6 STR would get balanced in a game where to hit and damage keys off one attribute (kind of like ...) to where I wondered if it wouldn't be +6 but be something more reasonable like +4/-2.

Draw 3 cards and heal/prevent 3 aren't similar power effects - sometimes cycles don't make sense.

Well, anyway, Fatherbane kind of locked in Barrelbane being what it is as well as what the Eldritch would generally look like. If +4/+5 is too low, I can imagine how much, say, +2/+2/+2 would garner in hate. There are many, many variations that can be done, and I would expect no single variation to be predominant in a poll/survey, so I expect a lot of disappointment one way or the other.

Rather than "historically, this has always been the case" for a game that seems to have gone through a variety of growing pains (for the players more than the providers?), I can see the "think of the children" model suddenly putting an end to certain shenanigans and resetting the power level in the game.

I really like it at the +5 to any one of the stats.

Ignoring other tokens you have - it nets the same +3 levels of increase you were getting without the penalty. Yes you can make your stat bonuses higher or lower depending on what other tokens you equip - but that's part of the fun of building our characters differently.

At +4 I wasn't sure I wanted to get the other kilt and make it - at +5 with no penalties I'm sure I do.

Boilerplate wrote:

Grekel! wrote: Really like the Tome of Focus as-currently revised. Skill Checks should be something that is a challenge. And if there is a way to bypass or auto-pass - then that should be a separate slot from a damage boost. Besides there are already pearls for Wizard and Cleric to get two opportunities to get the challenge correct...

I don't know - just something about auto-succeeding seems - too easy....

+1

Taking the human element out of casting seems contrary to the spirit of the game. It would be like creating a token that allows non-casters to forego sliding. At least we make rogues take 10 hp damage to use the rod of persuasion and forego their hallmark skill test. I favor rewarding players who work to hone their crafts, so I have no problem with more practiced casters doing more spell damage the same way more practiced sliders do more physical damage.

And for those that are really afraid of passing a skill test, we already have in print tokens that allow re-tries and the FOP Raven that allows auto succeed 1x/game. (Not to mention the bard muse spell to allow a re-try.)

I don't mind auto succeeding as it opens up classes to people that may issues memorizing the charts. Sometimes it has nothing to do with honing your craft.

I was actually alot more excited for the original tome. Perhaps add a negative effect when used like on the Rod of Persuasion?

Chris Von Wahlde wrote: I don't mind auto succeeding as it opens up classes to people that may issues memorizing the charts. Sometimes it has nothing to do with honing your craft.

I was actually alot more excited for the original tome. Perhaps add a negative effect when used like on the Rod of Persuasion?

I don't understand the argument that foregoing skill checks opens up classes to others.

People miss slides all the time. It doesn't stop them from trying.

If the anxiety is such that someone is uncomfortable trying to memorize things, it's okay. They don't have to. Plenty of people forego the checks for other reasons.

You will still get an effect 100% of the time. The same can't be said for sliding.