TOPIC: Notes about Tokens for 2019

Rob F wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: SPECIAL NOTE about Relics and Legendaries

Now that every class has at least a few generic legendary tokens, starting in 2019 we will be producing class specific ones. Every Relic and Legendary class specific token, barring some thematic exceptions will occupy the neck slot so as not to interfere with any previous Eldritch items. The two classes that will not be in the neck slot are the Bard and Paladin. This puts all the classes on a roughly even slot impact basis. I hope you like the new 2019 legendaries for the Bard, Druid, & Rogue! Next year we plan on Neck slot items for the Barbarian, Monk and Ranger -- while the +2 Holy Avenger (from 2019) can be transmuted up to a +5 Holy Avenger! We wanted to add the +2 Holy Avenger in this year -- since Paladins will be venturing into the Infernal Pit!

oldschoolfrp.tumblr.com/image/125089241577

all neck slot? that sounds terrible. unless some of the relic level items are just bad, every single neck slot UR will become crap over the next few years. for a slot that was always touted as the premier slot and given some of the best URs, this is awful. I can see some of the classes being given their legendary in the neck slot; and the other half of the classes can trade for their now-unused neck URs. maybe the other half can have a specific slot selected for their special item; perhaps back slot?

The neck slot does present a real source of potential anguish for many players... but eventually you're going to have to give up something... I do agree that neck seems very "pricey" if you will... but then, for me so does back...

Yes. At some point everyone is going to have to give up something. No way around it.

And realistically I know that, and I am OK with it. I just particularly feel inclined to whine about it a little bit because, the neck slot already forces me to choose between amulet of wonder and charm necklace… I don’t want to have to make more hard decisions…

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Grekel! wrote: I've been thinking about the wand situation. And I rarely use wands these days... I hate seeing them get consumed in one shot... but then again it is not really one single shot... it's kind of like a repeating scroll...

that said...

I wonder (yeah Ima get pounded for being greedy, but that's ok)

Would it be possible to get a "wand as free action" UR or Legendary...? I'd be ok if it was a little bit blood magic like the MEC.... That way you could tag on the wand effect as a bit of "flavour" to spice up your standard spell casting....

Just a thought...

But overall - I get the reasoning behind the changes... and it does make sense.

Your token wish has been granted?

tokendb.com/token/medallion-of-mystic-mouth/

I get that - But after I read the way it applies to the new wand rules... it seems that if I were to say "I'm casting and using the MoMM to use a wand as a free action as well"... I don't think it works that way - does it?

If it does then I retract my request...

I'm not sure what you mean?

The MMM has always worked, and I see no suggestion it would change, this way:

As a free action, ready a wand in your hand, use the wand, and return your hands to whatever state they were in before the readying.


The change to wands makes them consumable, why would it change how MMM functions? (MMM functions that way with both consumable and nonconsumable wands)

I think perhaps I misunderstood how the medallion worked. My own fault. For not digging deeper into it. So now the quandary is medallion is in that slot but I have to choose three less charms or the medallion… Aargh.

And the next light stands to become more contested in the future… Aargh.

I’ll get over it.

I will still lobby for a “wand of distilled wands”, perhaps with backlash damage like the MEC...

Grekel! wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: SPECIAL NOTE about Relics and Legendaries

Now that every class has at least a few generic legendary tokens, starting in 2019 we will be producing class specific ones. Every Relic and Legendary class specific token, barring some thematic exceptions will occupy the neck slot so as not to interfere with any previous Eldritch items. The two classes that will not be in the neck slot are the Bard and Paladin. This puts all the classes on a roughly even slot impact basis. I hope you like the new 2019 legendaries for the Bard, Druid, & Rogue! Next year we plan on Neck slot items for the Barbarian, Monk and Ranger -- while the +2 Holy Avenger (from 2019) can be transmuted up to a +5 Holy Avenger! We wanted to add the +2 Holy Avenger in this year -- since Paladins will be venturing into the Infernal Pit!

oldschoolfrp.tumblr.com/image/125089241577

all neck slot? that sounds terrible. unless some of the relic level items are just bad, every single neck slot UR will become crap over the next few years. for a slot that was always touted as the premier slot and given some of the best URs, this is awful. I can see some of the classes being given their legendary in the neck slot; and the other half of the classes can trade for their now-unused neck URs. maybe the other half can have a specific slot selected for their special item; perhaps back slot?

The neck slot does present a real source of potential anguish for many players... but eventually you're going to have to give up something... I do agree that neck seems very "pricey" if you will... but then, for me so does back...

Yes. At some point everyone is going to have to give up something. No way around it.

And realistically I know that, and I am OK with it. I just particularly feel inclined to whine about it a little bit because, the neck slot already forces me to choose between amulet of wonder and charm necklace… I don’t want to have to make more hard decisions…

I can think of one easy way around it. New slot, call it guild mark or something. That said I'm also fine if it stays as is. Remember at least palis and bards class specific legendaries are a sword and lute. Which imo is fantastic given amulet of guarding is just so pali.

LoDS change is very much a sad change me for me. It is what got me into playing a Cleric and Druid for healing as I didn't need a bunch of tokens to feel like I was helping the party. I have kept quite a few new players a alive using that.

That being said I feel with that change I will move away from those two classes.

Picc wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: SPECIAL NOTE about Relics and Legendaries

Now that every class has at least a few generic legendary tokens, starting in 2019 we will be producing class specific ones. Every Relic and Legendary class specific token, barring some thematic exceptions will occupy the neck slot so as not to interfere with any previous Eldritch items. The two classes that will not be in the neck slot are the Bard and Paladin. This puts all the classes on a roughly even slot impact basis. I hope you like the new 2019 legendaries for the Bard, Druid, & Rogue! Next year we plan on Neck slot items for the Barbarian, Monk and Ranger -- while the +2 Holy Avenger (from 2019) can be transmuted up to a +5 Holy Avenger! We wanted to add the +2 Holy Avenger in this year -- since Paladins will be venturing into the Infernal Pit!

oldschoolfrp.tumblr.com/image/125089241577

all neck slot? that sounds terrible. unless some of the relic level items are just bad, every single neck slot UR will become crap over the next few years. for a slot that was always touted as the premier slot and given some of the best URs, this is awful. I can see some of the classes being given their legendary in the neck slot; and the other half of the classes can trade for their now-unused neck URs. maybe the other half can have a specific slot selected for their special item; perhaps back slot?

The neck slot does present a real source of potential anguish for many players... but eventually you're going to have to give up something... I do agree that neck seems very "pricey" if you will... but then, for me so does back...

Yes. At some point everyone is going to have to give up something. No way around it.

And realistically I know that, and I am OK with it. I just particularly feel inclined to whine about it a little bit because, the neck slot already forces me to choose between amulet of wonder and charm necklace… I don’t want to have to make more hard decisions…

I can think of one easy way around it. New slot, call it guild mark or something. That said I'm also fine if it stays as is. Remember at least palis and bards class specific legendaries are a sword and lute. Which imo is fantastic given amulet of guarding is just so pali.

I really don't want another new slot. But trust me I get it. I have a lot of the stat boosting UR neck items, Amulet of Wonders and Charm Necklaces. All of which may be somewhat useless to me if this happens. However there could always be a kick ass legendary charm one day that may make the Charm Necklace more relevant and a really cool AoW power so I'll be hanging on to those. And the stat boosters should still be in demand from the UR level players.

Comment regarding LoDS: I still don't see why people aren't happy with the new change. It's a UR. The Shirt of Focus at the UR level is +2 to Healing. The Baton of Focus at the UR level is +2 to Healing. At the Rare level Healing items are +1. I get that it got nerfed but it never should have been more then +2 in the first place. Plus healers now have the new Tome which gives another +2. And my guess is that one day there will be a Legendary item which bumps up the Healing bonus appropriately. Let's not lobby too hard to improve it more only to have to nerf it a second time.

Rob F wrote: Comment regarding LoDS: I still don't see why people aren't happy with the new change. It's a UR. The Shirt of Focus at the UR level is +2 to Healing. The Baton of Focus at the UR level is +2 to Healing. At the Rare level Healing items are +1. I get that it got nerfed but it never should have been more then +2 in the first place. Plus healers now have the new Tome which gives another +2. And my guess is that one day there will be a Legendary item which bumps up the Healing bonus appropriately. Let's not lobby too hard to improve it more only to have to nerf it a second time.

I'm ok with the revised LoDS.

Harlax wrote:

Rob F wrote: Comment regarding LoDS: I still don't see why people aren't happy with the new change. It's a UR. The Shirt of Focus at the UR level is +2 to Healing. The Baton of Focus at the UR level is +2 to Healing. At the Rare level Healing items are +1. I get that it got nerfed but it never should have been more then +2 in the first place. Plus healers now have the new Tome which gives another +2. And my guess is that one day there will be a Legendary item which bumps up the Healing bonus appropriately. Let's not lobby too hard to improve it more only to have to nerf it a second time.

I'm ok with the revised LoDS.

I concur.

It never made sense to me that the MEC got a pool of damage while the lenses doubled everything.

Also, the lenses remain quite powerful.

Maybe the cleric specific item should be some sort of holy symbol rather than a neck item?

I like the lute. I would have preferred the rogue be a cloak item.
Druid is interesting as neck. I think it is funny we asked for it to move out of the waist slot, be careful what you wish for.

I actually would like it out of the neck, as I would like druids to continue to be able to use MoMM.

We could really use some clarification on the crunchy rules of the shaman items. I am going to type a number of different questions and scenarios and maybe suggestions. Please know that when i assert taking some actions that i am not trying to rules-lawyer an unintended bonus, but only present what may be a loophole while we can still adjust the ability to work how intended without nerfing it after the fact...

These items seem to function differently than all other polymorph; the transformation itself is instantaneous, the only delay before these items was that without the coronet you have to drink the potion (which requires a standard action or free action with an item that allows drinking potion as free action). With the coronet, you can actually take a free action, sac 2 spells to polymorph, AND attack as your standard action all in one round.
If polymorphing itself is instantaneous, the new shaman items should be worded to state that they take a free action to activate (assuming that is the intention). That should maintain the intended function and be clear that the polymorph rules arent changing for anything else (ie the coronet).

On the subject of taking actions. Once you remove the cost of polymorphing, not being able to cast while polymorphed is mostly irrelevant. Even requiring a free action isnt much of a cost since you cant use items while polymorphed (ie. no free action potions, scrolls, or wands while polymorphed). So, even if you start a round in elemental form, you can drop back to human instantly (this is an established polymorph rule, please dont change it), cast a spell as standard action, then free action activate polymorph again (or some other free action and wait until next round to re-polymorph and attack).
Proposed 'fixes':
1. add 1/room to the polymorph ability on the relic (and UR).
2. Go ahead and give 'cast while polymorphed' to the relic. This may require a boost to legendary to make it feel like a bigger bonus.
3. Add the cost of a spell back to the ability.
4. Some combination of the above.
5. Leave as-is, and let players do the action gymnastics if they really want. But undestand that the 'spells while polymorphed' bonus isnt as good (mostly giving back a typically unusable free action).

I still think it would be very cool for each elemental form to get a slightly different ability (not just resistance and damage type), but i understand that you dont want to make it too complicated. ...and i am having trouble thinking up something that keeps it simple, but i will keep that process running in my brain.
The one thing that does seem simple enough is making the air elemental attack as ranged. While this does add options/versatility, it might actually be a drawback to that element since most druids probably have low ranged stats. I know that i have ignored ranged for druid since any non-melee combats i can just fire off a few spells instead of poymorphing. Giving that built in ranged attack, at worst, means some druids just wont use the air elemental, but it might actually entice druids to improve ranged stats.

10 points of resistance is REALLY strong. I feel the supreme ring has already shown how it can warp the game. However, this is only one class, and they have to pick the correct element before getting hit, so maybe it is fine.

Not that there is anything wrong with it, but i find the damage wheel progession to be...odd. all three shaman items have the same bottom half 6-7-8, the the other half goes by 3s and any increase is by 3. Is there any reason behind this?

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Rob F wrote: Comment regarding LoDS: I still don't see why people aren't happy with the new change. It's a UR. The Shirt of Focus at the UR level is +2 to Healing. The Baton of Focus at the UR level is +2 to Healing. At the Rare level Healing items are +1. I get that it got nerfed but it never should have been more then +2 in the first place. Plus healers now have the new Tome which gives another +2. And my guess is that one day there will be a Legendary item which bumps up the Healing bonus appropriately. Let's not lobby too hard to improve it more only to have to nerf it a second time.

I'm ok with the revised LoDS.

I concur.

It never made sense to me that the MEC got a pool of damage while the lenses doubled everything.

Also, the lenses remain quite powerful.

Maybe the cleric specific item should be some sort of holy symbol rather than a neck item?

I like the lute. I would have preferred the rogue be a cloak item.
Druid is interesting as neck. I think it is funny we asked for it to move out of the waist slot, be careful what you wish for.

I actually would like it out of the neck, as I would like druids to continue to be able to use MoMM.

Why not make the LoDS just like the MEC, doubling the base spell healing (including spell check), and all bonus healing goes into a pool?

Rob F wrote: Comment regarding LoDS: I still don't see why people aren't happy with the new change. It's a UR. The Shirt of Focus at the UR level is +2 to Healing. The Baton of Focus at the UR level is +2 to Healing. At the Rare level Healing items are +1. I get that it got nerfed but it never should have been more then +2 in the first place. Plus healers now have the new Tome which gives another +2. And my guess is that one day there will be a Legendary item which bumps up the Healing bonus appropriately. Let's not lobby too hard to improve it more only to have to nerf it a second time.

Yes, it is at a good level now. In fact, i think if it wasnt being errata'd and this was a new UR, it would only be +1 and the split ability. But since jeff is trying to make the errata hurt less, he is giving +2.

Although, on the flip side, the splitting ability isnt something i value that highly, so i might be trading mine in for something else despite the +2.

Rob F wrote:

Picc wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Grekel! wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: SPECIAL NOTE about Relics and Legendaries

Now that every class has at least a few generic legendary tokens, starting in 2019 we will be producing class specific ones. Every Relic and Legendary class specific token, barring some thematic exceptions will occupy the neck slot so as not to interfere with any previous Eldritch items. The two classes that will not be in the neck slot are the Bard and Paladin. This puts all the classes on a roughly even slot impact basis. I hope you like the new 2019 legendaries for the Bard, Druid, & Rogue! Next year we plan on Neck slot items for the Barbarian, Monk and Ranger -- while the +2 Holy Avenger (from 2019) can be transmuted up to a +5 Holy Avenger! We wanted to add the +2 Holy Avenger in this year -- since Paladins will be venturing into the Infernal Pit!

oldschoolfrp.tumblr.com/image/125089241577

all neck slot? that sounds terrible. unless some of the relic level items are just bad, every single neck slot UR will become crap over the next few years. for a slot that was always touted as the premier slot and given some of the best URs, this is awful. I can see some of the classes being given their legendary in the neck slot; and the other half of the classes can trade for their now-unused neck URs. maybe the other half can have a specific slot selected for their special item; perhaps back slot?

The neck slot does present a real source of potential anguish for many players... but eventually you're going to have to give up something... I do agree that neck seems very "pricey" if you will... but then, for me so does back...

Yes. At some point everyone is going to have to give up something. No way around it.

And realistically I know that, and I am OK with it. I just particularly feel inclined to whine about it a little bit because, the neck slot already forces me to choose between amulet of wonder and charm necklace… I don’t want to have to make more hard decisions…

I can think of one easy way around it. New slot, call it guild mark or something. That said I'm also fine if it stays as is. Remember at least palis and bards class specific legendaries are a sword and lute. Which imo is fantastic given amulet of guarding is just so pali.

I really don't want another new slot. But trust me I get it. I have a lot of the stat boosting UR neck items, Amulet of Wonders and Charm Necklaces. All of which may be somewhat useless to me if this happens. However there could always be a kick ass legendary charm one day that may make the Charm Necklace more relevant and a really cool AoW power so I'll be hanging on to those. And the stat boosters should still be in demand from the UR level players.

I suppose we could do something truly legendary and say that the legendary class necks would all grant a second neck slot for an UR (but thats basically just a new slot by another name)