TOPIC: Notes about Tokens for 2019

If the rule was 1-2 wands consumed per game instead of per room (depending if you were using MoMM or not), the medallion and ioun Stone would still see play. Instead I will be finding better things to put in these slots because of this change.

Josh Wilhelmi wrote: If the rule was 1-2 wands consumed per game instead of per room (depending if you were using MoMM or not), the medallion and ioun Stone would still see play. Instead I will be finding better things to put in these slots because of this change.

This seems odd to me. With MoMM and the IS, you can get a Free +10(12 if you are a Human Wizard) damage as a free action every round for turning in 1 wand in a room. If you only want to turn in 1-2 wands then only do it in last 1-2 combat rooms.

What are you going to wear in your neck that is going to rival +8 ( or 10) and burning 1 rare extra damage each round as a wizard? There might be better options that the IS I will admit.

At the cost of an uncommon wand you still get an extra +5 ( or 7). Potion of Bull's strength (also a uncommon consumable give +2/+2.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

edwin wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Grekel! wrote: I've been thinking about the wand situation. And I rarely use wands these days... I hate seeing them get consumed in one shot... but then again it is not really one single shot... it's kind of like a repeating scroll...

that said...

I wonder (yeah Ima get pounded for being greedy, but that's ok)

Would it be possible to get a "wand as free action" UR or Legendary...? I'd be ok if it was a little bit blood magic like the MEC.... That way you could tag on the wand effect as a bit of "flavour" to spice up your standard spell casting....

Just a thought...

But overall - I get the reasoning behind the changes... and it does make sense.

Your token wish has been granted?

tokendb.com/token/medallion-of-mystic-mouth/

Same token, same wand or any item of the same type?
"...The item swapped out must be the same item that’s swapped back in..."

I’m not sure what is being asked.

I thought the OP wanted a way to fire a wand as a free action.

Mmm gives you that.

I think it literally means what it says. You get the exact same item.

I think the original concept was to cast a spell with your Staff, MMM a wand, and have your staff back ready for the next round.

Back at the dawn of time, or at least two years ago, it made a difference. You could use your SA to use the last charge of a wand, MMM and use a fresh wand, but then you have to swap back in a useless stick.

I agree that’s how it works.

Whatever was in your hands before you used the mmm is still in the hands.

I don’t understand what we are talking about here I guess.

I’m not sure what the op was driving at.

We do have a ur that gives wand use as a free action. What would they like that is different?

Jeff Martin wrote: Wands

The first thing I want to address are the “chargeless” wands first printed in 2018. Although we loved seeing more wands being used, we feel that unlimited-use wands are not the ideal path going forward. Starting at Origins 2019, all wands will now be consumable, but wands will no longer have a fixed number of charges. When a player wants to use a wand (old or new), they hand the wand token to the DM. Actions permitting, the player may use this wand as much as they desire for the rest of the room. At the end of the room the wand is placed in the consumables bucket.

If you have a Medallion of Mystic Mouth you will have to place TWO Wands on the combat board so that you can use each one -- each round. At the end of the combat, both Wand tokens are consumed.
oldschoolfrp.tumblr.com/image/125089241577

Hi Jeff,


Out of curiosity, if someone hands in a Wand of Cure Light Wounds, are they essentially able to heal everyone back up to full strength by the end of the room? I'm actually OK if that's the case, since there are so few Wands of Cure Light Wounds around. I know I wouldn't use one of mine for that even if allowed. But, I hope it doesn't prevent a healing wand from being made in the future. I guess it could say something like "Turn in for X number of charges in 1 room" instead of saying "Unlimited".


I think the Wand of Life Stealing just got a bit better, although that's only able to heal the Wizard and not others.


Thanks,
Mike

What has me slightly bummed about the new rule is that the least pointless wand I carry around with me is Illumination. It has 5 charges, I only never used it like once per room... liche Smoak, I believe. But it’s not like it has been worth using since then, and I don’t imagine there are a lot of them around.

That said, I would like to suggest an errata to MMM so the caster isn’t required to swap stuff. That would allow wizards to use the same wand twice in a round. That way they only have to turn in one vs two if they run out of spells.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

edwin wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Grekel! wrote: I've been thinking about the wand situation. And I rarely use wands these days... I hate seeing them get consumed in one shot... but then again it is not really one single shot... it's kind of like a repeating scroll...

that said...

I wonder (yeah Ima get pounded for being greedy, but that's ok)

Would it be possible to get a "wand as free action" UR or Legendary...? I'd be ok if it was a little bit blood magic like the MEC.... That way you could tag on the wand effect as a bit of "flavour" to spice up your standard spell casting....

Just a thought...

But overall - I get the reasoning behind the changes... and it does make sense.

Your token wish has been granted?

tokendb.com/token/medallion-of-mystic-mouth/

Same token, same wand or any item of the same type?
"...The item swapped out must be the same item that’s swapped back in..."

I’m not sure what is being asked.

I thought the OP wanted a way to fire a wand as a free action.

Mmm gives you that.

I think it literally means what it says. You get the exact same item.

I think the original concept was to cast a spell with your Staff, MMM a wand, and have your staff back ready for the next round.

Back at the dawn of time, or at least two years ago, it made a difference. You could use your SA to use the last charge of a wand, MMM and use a fresh wand, but then you have to swap back in a useless stick.

I agree that’s how it works.

Whatever was in your hands before you used the mmm is still in the hands.

I don’t understand what we are talking about here I guess.

I’m not sure what the op was driving at.

We do have a ur that gives wand use as a free action. What would they like that is different?

You use up your free action to get a shot off with a wand that is not in your hand at the end of your actions.

You don't have a free action to change what started off or ended up in your hand. You don't have a free action to use from another token that round.

Then why are we even talking about changing how MMM works?

Requiring one to alway have a wand in hand before using the free action with MMM with a wand is not a good thing at all. Unless you carry a wand in hand normally the MMM is trash under the new ruling.

The new lets someone carry one item, turn in two wands to the table and fire both wands in the same round. In effect giving two free actions.

Flik wrote:

Edward Deangelis wrote: I know I might be in the minority. But I for one and not pleased with the two UR changes. I spent a lot of money getting those tokens for my group. And I don't like that they are being changed. I paid for the item to do what it does. And yes I know, that I can exchange it for something else. But I don't want something else, I wanted those specific items for what they did. Not something else, changing them seems just like a shitty move to me.

I know the feeling. After two years of playing cleric I decided to buy a +3 baton and lenses this year at Gencon. I think our group owned two URs and two RoH prior to this. So I got to use the lenses for one convention before a ban hammer and $200 loss. Although I was pretty salty for a day or two I realize that Jeff and the other vets know what’s best for the game and I trust their judgment.

I would have been super salty if the lenses stayed at the alpha build though...

I’m not sure about the trade in,
But they should give you,
Two x10 treasure tokens,
For when you trade it in for the
2019 version.
I know COS is one x10 Treasure Token
For the trade in.

The Falcon wrote: .
I know COS is one x10 Treasure Token
For the trade in.

???

Not Charm of Synergy, surely?

Harlax wrote:

The Falcon wrote: .
I know COS is one x10 Treasure Token
For the trade in.

???

Not Charm of Synergy, surely?

Cloak of Shadowskin

edwin wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

edwin wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Grekel! wrote: I've been thinking about the wand situation. And I rarely use wands these days... I hate seeing them get consumed in one shot... but then again it is not really one single shot... it's kind of like a repeating scroll...

that said...

I wonder (yeah Ima get pounded for being greedy, but that's ok)

Would it be possible to get a "wand as free action" UR or Legendary...? I'd be ok if it was a little bit blood magic like the MEC.... That way you could tag on the wand effect as a bit of "flavour" to spice up your standard spell casting....

Just a thought...

But overall - I get the reasoning behind the changes... and it does make sense.

Your token wish has been granted?

tokendb.com/token/medallion-of-mystic-mouth/

Same token, same wand or any item of the same type?
"...The item swapped out must be the same item that’s swapped back in..."

I’m not sure what is being asked.

I thought the OP wanted a way to fire a wand as a free action.

Mmm gives you that.

I think it literally means what it says. You get the exact same item.

I think the original concept was to cast a spell with your Staff, MMM a wand, and have your staff back ready for the next round.

Back at the dawn of time, or at least two years ago, it made a difference. You could use your SA to use the last charge of a wand, MMM and use a fresh wand, but then you have to swap back in a useless stick.

I agree that’s how it works.

Whatever was in your hands before you used the mmm is still in the hands.

I don’t understand what we are talking about here I guess.

I’m not sure what the op was driving at.

We do have a ur that gives wand use as a free action. What would they like that is different?

You use up your free action to get a shot off with a wand that is not in your hand at the end of your actions.

You don't have a free action to change what started off or ended up in your hand. You don't have a free action to use from another token that round.

Then why are we even talking about changing how MMM works?

Requiring one to alway have a wand in hand before using the free action with MMM with a wand is not a good thing at all. Unless you carry a wand in hand normally the MMM is trash under the new ruling.

The new lets someone carry one item, turn in two wands to the table and fire both wands in the same round. In effect giving two free actions.

No, that’s not how it works. That’s what Jeff said at one point, but he misspoke and I believe he corrected himself.

Before and after the change, MMM let you:

1. Start with either a Staff or Wand
2. Use standard action to cast a spell (if you had staff) or use your wand
3. Use your free action to swap to a different wand, use it, then swap it back to what you had in step 1.

That didn’t change. What did change is that any wand you used gets trashed at the end of the room. That effectively puts things back to where the were from the beginning of TD through 2016, plus or minus a charge. 2017 was the anomaly.

My suggestion would be to make the first part of step 3 optional i.e. just use the same wand twice in the round.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

edwin wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

edwin wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Grekel! wrote: I've been thinking about the wand situation. And I rarely use wands these days... I hate seeing them get consumed in one shot... but then again it is not really one single shot... it's kind of like a repeating scroll...

that said...

I wonder (yeah Ima get pounded for being greedy, but that's ok)

Would it be possible to get a "wand as free action" UR or Legendary...? I'd be ok if it was a little bit blood magic like the MEC.... That way you could tag on the wand effect as a bit of "flavour" to spice up your standard spell casting....

Just a thought...

But overall - I get the reasoning behind the changes... and it does make sense.

Your token wish has been granted?

tokendb.com/token/medallion-of-mystic-mouth/

Same token, same wand or any item of the same type?
"...The item swapped out must be the same item that’s swapped back in..."

I’m not sure what is being asked.

I thought the OP wanted a way to fire a wand as a free action.

Mmm gives you that.

I think it literally means what it says. You get the exact same item.

I think the original concept was to cast a spell with your Staff, MMM a wand, and have your staff back ready for the next round.

Back at the dawn of time, or at least two years ago, it made a difference. You could use your SA to use the last charge of a wand, MMM and use a fresh wand, but then you have to swap back in a useless stick.

I agree that’s how it works.

Whatever was in your hands before you used the mmm is still in the hands.

I don’t understand what we are talking about here I guess.

I’m not sure what the op was driving at.

We do have a ur that gives wand use as a free action. What would they like that is different?

You use up your free action to get a shot off with a wand that is not in your hand at the end of your actions.

You don't have a free action to change what started off or ended up in your hand. You don't have a free action to use from another token that round.

Then why are we even talking about changing how MMM works?

Requiring one to alway have a wand in hand before using the free action with MMM with a wand is not a good thing at all. Unless you carry a wand in hand normally the MMM is trash under the new ruling.

The new lets someone carry one item, turn in two wands to the table and fire both wands in the same round. In effect giving two free actions.

No, that’s not how it works. That’s what Jeff said at one point, but he misspoke and I believe he corrected himself.

Before and after the change, MMM let you:

1. Start with either a Staff or Wand
2. Use standard action to cast a spell (if you had staff) or use your wand
3. Use your free action to swap to a different wand, use it, then swap it back to what you had in step 1.

That didn’t change. What did change is that any wand you used gets trashed at the end of the room. That effectively puts things back to where the were from the beginning of TD through 2016, plus or minus a charge. 2017 was the anomaly.

My suggestion would be to make the first part of step 3 optional i.e. just use the same wand twice in the round.

Technically step 2 could be something like a Melee attack as well.

Just trying to understand the use of a MMM.

The token database:
tokendb.com/token/medallion-of-mystic-mouth/

Per the description:
I can start with Thor's Hammer, throw it, it returns.
I can then use MMM to use a wand.
I end the round with Thor's Hammer in my hand.

I did not see any restriction on what has to be in your hand in order to use MMM in the same round.

In the first post Jeff wrote:
If you have a Medallion of Mystic Mouth you will have to place TWO Wands on the combat board so that you can use each one -- each round. At the end of the combat, both Wand tokens are consumed.

Essentially, the change requires one to always carry a wand in the hand if you plan on using MMM.