TOPIC: Notes about Tokens for 2019

Edward Deangelis wrote: I know I might be in the minority. But I for one and not pleased with the two UR changes. I spent a lot of money getting those tokens for my group. And I don't like that they are being changed. I paid for the item to do what it does. And yes I know, that I can exchange it for something else. But I don't want something else, I wanted those specific items for what they did. Not something else, changing them seems just like a shitty move to me.

I know the feeling. After two years of playing cleric I decided to buy a +3 baton and lenses this year at Gencon. I think our group owned two URs and two RoH prior to this. So I got to use the lenses for one convention before a ban hammer and $200 loss. Although I was pretty salty for a day or two I realize that Jeff and the other vets know what’s best for the game and I trust their judgment.

I would have been super salty if the lenses stayed at the alpha build though...

Flik wrote:

Edward Deangelis wrote: I know I might be in the minority. But I for one and not pleased with the two UR changes. I spent a lot of money getting those tokens for my group. And I don't like that they are being changed. I paid for the item to do what it does. And yes I know, that I can exchange it for something else. But I don't want something else, I wanted those specific items for what they did. Not something else, changing them seems just like a shitty move to me.

I know the feeling. After two years of playing cleric I decided to buy a +3 baton and lenses this year at Gencon. I think our group owned two URs and two RoH prior to this. So I got to use the lenses for one convention before a ban hammer and $200 loss. Although I was pretty salty for a day or two I realize that Jeff and the other vets know what’s best for the game and I trust their judgment.

I would have been super salty if the lenses stayed at the alpha build though...

I agree with this.

I think fixes were needed.

Wands sting a lot.
I would like an errata to MoMM that one wand would be enough per room, even if it was your free and standard actions. Maybe that's too good. Idk.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Flik wrote:

Edward Deangelis wrote: I know I might be in the minority. But I for one and not pleased with the two UR changes. I spent a lot of money getting those tokens for my group. And I don't like that they are being changed. I paid for the item to do what it does. And yes I know, that I can exchange it for something else. But I don't want something else, I wanted those specific items for what they did. Not something else, changing them seems just like a shitty move to me.

I know the feeling. After two years of playing cleric I decided to buy a +3 baton and lenses this year at Gencon. I think our group owned two URs and two RoH prior to this. So I got to use the lenses for one convention before a ban hammer and $200 loss. Although I was pretty salty for a day or two I realize that Jeff and the other vets know what’s best for the game and I trust their judgment.

I would have been super salty if the lenses stayed at the alpha build though...

I agree with this.

I think fixes were needed.

Wands sting a lot.
I would like an errata to MoMM that one wand would be enough per room, even if it was your free and standard actions. Maybe that's too good. Idk.

What if we errata's MoMM to not consume wands. So normal wand use consumes, wands activated through MoMM not consumed. Got no skin in the wizard game though, so just brainstorming.

Picc wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Flik wrote:

Edward Deangelis wrote: I know I might be in the minority. But I for one and not pleased with the two UR changes. I spent a lot of money getting those tokens for my group. And I don't like that they are being changed. I paid for the item to do what it does. And yes I know, that I can exchange it for something else. But I don't want something else, I wanted those specific items for what they did. Not something else, changing them seems just like a shitty move to me.

I know the feeling. After two years of playing cleric I decided to buy a +3 baton and lenses this year at Gencon. I think our group owned two URs and two RoH prior to this. So I got to use the lenses for one convention before a ban hammer and $200 loss. Although I was pretty salty for a day or two I realize that Jeff and the other vets know what’s best for the game and I trust their judgment.

I would have been super salty if the lenses stayed at the alpha build though...

I agree with this.

I think fixes were needed.

Wands sting a lot.
I would like an errata to MoMM that one wand would be enough per room, even if it was your free and standard actions. Maybe that's too good. Idk.

What if we errata's MoMM to not consume wands. So normal wand use consumes, wands activated through MoMM not consumed. Got no skin in the wizard game though, so just brainstorming.

I think the change in the rule was addressed directly at MoMM. I agree that 1 wand/room would make it sting less and seems like a good compromise.

As someone who used a rare potion in every room at Gen Con, I think that wouldn't be as bad. Of course, the wizards won't really find solace in that considering they had something and then it was taken away.

Arnold wrote:

Picc wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Flik wrote:

Edward Deangelis wrote: I know I might be in the minority. But I for one and not pleased with the two UR changes. I spent a lot of money getting those tokens for my group. And I don't like that they are being changed. I paid for the item to do what it does. And yes I know, that I can exchange it for something else. But I don't want something else, I wanted those specific items for what they did. Not something else, changing them seems just like a shitty move to me.

I know the feeling. After two years of playing cleric I decided to buy a +3 baton and lenses this year at Gencon. I think our group owned two URs and two RoH prior to this. So I got to use the lenses for one convention before a ban hammer and $200 loss. Although I was pretty salty for a day or two I realize that Jeff and the other vets know what’s best for the game and I trust their judgment.

I would have been super salty if the lenses stayed at the alpha build though...

I agree with this.

I think fixes were needed.

Wands sting a lot.
I would like an errata to MoMM that one wand would be enough per room, even if it was your free and standard actions. Maybe that's too good. Idk.

What if we errata's MoMM to not consume wands. So normal wand use consumes, wands activated through MoMM not consumed. Got no skin in the wizard game though, so just brainstorming.

I think the change in the rule was addressed directly at MoMM. I agree that 1 wand/room would make it sting less and seems like a good compromise.

As someone who used a rare potion in every room at Gen Con, I think that wouldn't be as bad. Of course, the wizards won't really find solace in that considering they had something and then it was taken away.

They might.

I have a MoMM, as well as CoSS and LoDS, as I like to play different classes.
It feels a LOT better that LoDS got +2 healing along with the splitting power.

I think most wizards will still want to use both spells and wands in the same room, so it might not affect too many. Anything we can give them back will help reduce the displeasure.

I also think we should allow a MoMM trade in for a different UR.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Picc wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Flik wrote:

Edward Deangelis wrote: I know I might be in the minority. But I for one and not pleased with the two UR changes. I spent a lot of money getting those tokens for my group. And I don't like that they are being changed. I paid for the item to do what it does. And yes I know, that I can exchange it for something else. But I don't want something else, I wanted those specific items for what they did. Not something else, changing them seems just like a shitty move to me.

I know the feeling. After two years of playing cleric I decided to buy a +3 baton and lenses this year at Gencon. I think our group owned two URs and two RoH prior to this. So I got to use the lenses for one convention before a ban hammer and $200 loss. Although I was pretty salty for a day or two I realize that Jeff and the other vets know what’s best for the game and I trust their judgment.

I would have been super salty if the lenses stayed at the alpha build though...

I agree with this.

I think fixes were needed.

Wands sting a lot.
I would like an errata to MoMM that one wand would be enough per room, even if it was your free and standard actions. Maybe that's too good. Idk.

What if we errata's MoMM to not consume wands. So normal wand use consumes, wands activated through MoMM not consumed. Got no skin in the wizard game though, so just brainstorming.

I think the change in the rule was addressed directly at MoMM. I agree that 1 wand/room would make it sting less and seems like a good compromise.

As someone who used a rare potion in every room at Gen Con, I think that wouldn't be as bad. Of course, the wizards won't really find solace in that considering they had something and then it was taken away.

They might.

I have a MoMM, as well as CoSS and LoDS, as I like to play different classes.
It feels a LOT better that LoDS got +2 healing along with the splitting power.

I think most wizards will still want to use both spells and wands in the same room, so it might not affect too many. Anything we can give them back will help reduce the displeasure.

I also think we should allow a MoMM trade in for a different UR.

If we're talking trading in tokens, I want to see the Fluorite Cube on the list as well. MoMM is a legendary component, so even if the nerf reduced it to zero value (which it didn't - heavy nerf, but not 0 value) it still has value just as transmute fodder. But the Ioun Stone went from being a permanent item booster to being a consumable booster, and (correct me if I'm wrong) I can't think of any other consumable booster that is a slotted item. Alchemist Pouch, Scroll Tube, Lotus Bowls... all very recently printed items that boost consumables, and all slotless. The Ioun Stone sticks out like a sore thumb there, even if it's active all room for the cost of one consumable. It now severely lacks consistency with other effects of its type.

For the wand nerfs, we aren't talking items that were printed 5 years ago and turned out to be gamebreaking. We're talking about a nerf the year after a change was made, after tokens were printed explicitly to support the new mechanics. If I can't trust that the URs that I selected as PYPs LITERALLY the year before (these items are still in print!) aren't about to receive a nerf, how the hell am I supposed to invest in a build?

As a note, I've only been playing since 2014. Can any older heads in the thread remember a time where a nerf happened this quickly?

Charm of the Sage boosts scrolls, but your point remains valid.

I could see the trade in for ISFC as well.
I am invested in both also.

isauteikisa wrote: If we're talking trading in tokens, I want to see the Fluorite Cube on the list as well. MoMM is a legendary component, so even if the nerf reduced it to zero value (which it didn't - heavy nerf, but not 0 value) it still has value just as transmute fodder. But the Ioun Stone went from being a permanent item booster to being a consumable booster, and (correct me if I'm wrong) I can't think of any other consumable booster that is a slotted item. Alchemist Pouch, Scroll Tube, Lotus Bowls... all very recently printed items that boost consumables, and all slotless. The Ioun Stone sticks out like a sore thumb there, even if it's active all room for the cost of one consumable. It now severely lacks consistency with other effects of its type.

For the wand nerfs, we aren't talking items that were printed 5 years ago and turned out to be gamebreaking. We're talking about a nerf the year after a change was made, after tokens were printed explicitly to support the new mechanics. If I can't trust that the URs that I selected as PYPs LITERALLY the year before (these items are still in print!) aren't about to receive a nerf, how the hell am I supposed to invest in a build?

As a note, I've only been playing since 2014. Can any older heads in the thread remember a time where a nerf happened this quickly?

Strong points indeed. I think you should start a new thread to bring attention this stance, as it could get buried in here.

Arnold wrote:

isauteikisa wrote: If we're talking trading in tokens, I want to see the Fluorite Cube on the list as well. MoMM is a legendary component, so even if the nerf reduced it to zero value (which it didn't - heavy nerf, but not 0 value) it still has value just as transmute fodder. But the Ioun Stone went from being a permanent item booster to being a consumable booster, and (correct me if I'm wrong) I can't think of any other consumable booster that is a slotted item. Alchemist Pouch, Scroll Tube, Lotus Bowls... all very recently printed items that boost consumables, and all slotless. The Ioun Stone sticks out like a sore thumb there, even if it's active all room for the cost of one consumable. It now severely lacks consistency with other effects of its type.

For the wand nerfs, we aren't talking items that were printed 5 years ago and turned out to be gamebreaking. We're talking about a nerf the year after a change was made, after tokens were printed explicitly to support the new mechanics. If I can't trust that the URs that I selected as PYPs LITERALLY the year before (these items are still in print!) aren't about to receive a nerf, how the hell am I supposed to invest in a build?

As a note, I've only been playing since 2014. Can any older heads in the thread remember a time where a nerf happened this quickly?

Strong points indeed. I think you should start a new thread to bring attention this stance, as it could get buried in here.

I'm going to, but I want to get all my thoughts organized before I do. There are multiple angles to be considered here, and I want to make sure I cover most of them. I may wind up making a thread specifically about the item nerfs and a second one about the wand mechanics in general and proposed fixes.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Grekel! wrote: I've been thinking about the wand situation. And I rarely use wands these days... I hate seeing them get consumed in one shot... but then again it is not really one single shot... it's kind of like a repeating scroll...

that said...

I wonder (yeah Ima get pounded for being greedy, but that's ok)

Would it be possible to get a "wand as free action" UR or Legendary...? I'd be ok if it was a little bit blood magic like the MEC.... That way you could tag on the wand effect as a bit of "flavour" to spice up your standard spell casting....

Just a thought...

But overall - I get the reasoning behind the changes... and it does make sense.

Your token wish has been granted?

tokendb.com/token/medallion-of-mystic-mouth/

Same token, same wand or any item of the same type?
"...The item swapped out must be the same item that’s swapped back in..."

edwin wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Grekel! wrote: I've been thinking about the wand situation. And I rarely use wands these days... I hate seeing them get consumed in one shot... but then again it is not really one single shot... it's kind of like a repeating scroll...

that said...

I wonder (yeah Ima get pounded for being greedy, but that's ok)

Would it be possible to get a "wand as free action" UR or Legendary...? I'd be ok if it was a little bit blood magic like the MEC.... That way you could tag on the wand effect as a bit of "flavour" to spice up your standard spell casting....

Just a thought...

But overall - I get the reasoning behind the changes... and it does make sense.

Your token wish has been granted?

tokendb.com/token/medallion-of-mystic-mouth/

Same token, same wand or any item of the same type?
"...The item swapped out must be the same item that’s swapped back in..."

I’m not sure what is being asked.

I thought the OP wanted a way to fire a wand as a free action.

Mmm gives you that.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

edwin wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Grekel! wrote: I've been thinking about the wand situation. And I rarely use wands these days... I hate seeing them get consumed in one shot... but then again it is not really one single shot... it's kind of like a repeating scroll...

that said...

I wonder (yeah Ima get pounded for being greedy, but that's ok)

Would it be possible to get a "wand as free action" UR or Legendary...? I'd be ok if it was a little bit blood magic like the MEC.... That way you could tag on the wand effect as a bit of "flavour" to spice up your standard spell casting....

Just a thought...

But overall - I get the reasoning behind the changes... and it does make sense.

Your token wish has been granted?

tokendb.com/token/medallion-of-mystic-mouth/

Same token, same wand or any item of the same type?
"...The item swapped out must be the same item that’s swapped back in..."

I’m not sure what is being asked.

I thought the OP wanted a way to fire a wand as a free action.

Mmm gives you that.

I think it literally means what it says. You get the exact same item.

I think the original concept was to cast a spell with your Staff, MMM a wand, and have your staff back ready for the next round.

Back at the dawn of time, or at least two years ago, it made a difference. You could use your SA to use the last charge of a wand, MMM and use a fresh wand, but then you have to swap back in a useless stick.