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TOPIC: 2019 Reprinted Token Suggestions

2019 Reprinted Token Suggestions 1 year 10 months ago #49

I think there are a decent number of URs I'd be comfortable with reprinting this year including:
Briano's Blessed Bodhran
Questor's Charm of Luck
Druegar's Death Die
Lenses of Vital Insight
Mad Evoker's Charm
Charm of Brooching
Ektdar's Tinkering Tool
Amulet of Wonder
Bracer of Quivering Palm
Gloves of the Flying Fists

One's I think are due for a reprint but I think could wait a year or two:
Carter's Tome of Insight
Lenses of Divine Sight
+1 Mighty Shortbow
Charm Necklace

And I agree with Kirk on Cloak of Shadowskin being a token that shouldn't be reprinted ever.

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2019 Reprinted Token Suggestions 1 year 10 months ago #50

I'm strongly in favor of creating a brand new 4th Cabal Token that can be used as part of the 3 piece cabal set. For most people the set bonus is the best part of cabal, but it's not worth equipping all three fairly crappy tokens. Giving a fourth option would be cool.
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2019 Reprinted Token Suggestions 1 year 10 months ago #51

Kirk Bauer wrote: I'm strongly in favor of creating a brand new 4th Cabal Token that can be used as part of the 3 piece cabal set. For most people the set bonus is the best part of cabal, but it's not worth equipping all three fairly crappy tokens. Giving a fourth option would be cool.


The Cabal charm is useless in builds with the Eldritch set. So a 4th piece would be nice, or a replacement Cabal charm, with a different power.

The gloves and bracelets actually work well if you get a full set of five going on a run together.

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2019 Reprinted Token Suggestions 1 year 10 months ago #52

Picc wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I think this is a good year to reprint either all three of

+2 viper strike fang
Viper strike shirt
Viper strike belt

Or to reprint the +2 fang and plan to print the belt and shirt over the next few years.

The reason would be with the addition of a new viper strike pants last year, that will still be in print, this will allowe new players access to what is probably the best all around melee gear.

Also, by reprinting the viper strike fangs we can hopefully forestall power creep that would eventually overtake them.

I’d also be interested if the pants, shirt, and belt could have a relic level transmute a-la charm of awakened synergy - otherwise I don’t see much call for the pants goin forward.


So if the viper set cam back through, would you open the relics up again as that's new territory.


I think it is captured in the Jeff's Token Pronouncements section, I think Jeff said he wasn't going to reprint Relics and Legendary tokens.

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2019 Reprinted Token Suggestions 1 year 10 months ago #53

Mike Steele wrote:

Picc wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I think this is a good year to reprint either all three of

+2 viper strike fang
Viper strike shirt
Viper strike belt

Or to reprint the +2 fang and plan to print the belt and shirt over the next few years.

The reason would be with the addition of a new viper strike pants last year, that will still be in print, this will allowe new players access to what is probably the best all around melee gear.

Also, by reprinting the viper strike fangs we can hopefully forestall power creep that would eventually overtake them.

I’d also be interested if the pants, shirt, and belt could have a relic level transmute a-la charm of awakened synergy - otherwise I don’t see much call for the pants goin forward.


So if the viper set cam back through, would you open the relics up again as that's new territory.


I think it is captured in the Jeff's Token Pronouncements section, I think Jeff said he wasn't going to reprint Relics and Legendary tokens.


Legendary recipies are always available.
Relic recipes have an expiration date, and once past that date, will not be available again in that form.
This specifically did not prevent functional reprints, but does mean that if you want to make a legendary, you need the specific relic it requires, which is general only available for a relatively short time.
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2019 Reprinted Token Suggestions 1 year 10 months ago #54

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Joshua Long wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: 1) I think Cloak of Shadowskin is too powerful and should never be reprinted, IMO.


It has already been printed and thus the cats already out of the bag one could say.

With the addition of epic this year I see this reprint as a token that starts people on the path of trying hard difficulties and thus getting deeper into the game in many aspects.


Plus, you could argue that if a token is overpowered, it actually balances the game by reprinting it and getting it into the hands of more people. It makes the overall player base more balanced. For instance, if Mad Evoker's Charm were reprinted, Nightmare and Epic could be designed assuming most magic users at that level are using it.


I don't think we should be making assumptions about builds. Particularly at the high levels, we should be able to encourage build variability, not hammer everyone over the head with "you have to use these tokens, or you're clearly inferior"


I agree with that, but it would open up the option for people to use the MEC. Our spellcasters don't use it even though I have it, they prefer to have the ability to change the damage type. I do think Nightmare and Epic damage levels already take MEC into account to some degree.

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2019 Reprinted Token Suggestions 1 year 10 months ago #55

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Joshua Long wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: 1) I think Cloak of Shadowskin is too powerful and should never be reprinted, IMO.


It has already been printed and thus the cats already out of the bag one could say.

With the addition of epic this year I see this reprint as a token that starts people on the path of trying hard difficulties and thus getting deeper into the game in many aspects.


Plus, you could argue that if a token is overpowered, it actually balances the game by reprinting it and getting it into the hands of more people. It makes the overall player base more balanced. For instance, if Mad Evoker's Charm were reprinted, Nightmare and Epic could be designed assuming most magic users at that level are using it.


I don't think we should be making assumptions about builds. Particularly at the high levels, we should be able to encourage build variability, not hammer everyone over the head with "you have to use these tokens, or you're clearly inferior"


I agree with that, but it would open up the option for people to use the MEC. Our spellcasters don't use it even though I have it, they prefer to have the ability to change the damage type. I do think Nightmare and Epic damage levels already take MEC into account to some degree.


I agree a reprint would give more people access to it and therefore open up options, which is a good thing.

I don't understand why you mentioned your spellcasters preferring to change the damage type, as they could do both if they so chose.

I truly hope Nightmare and Epic levels don't assume much of anything about builds other than a relative level of gear, and a certain amount of masochism on the part of the players.
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2019 Reprinted Token Suggestions 1 year 10 months ago #56

At rare level there are some potentially interesting options. Some of these are assuming the mindflayer has some charm abilities. If it's going to be insta-kill 'suck out brain' attacks maybe swap the will/charm saving options for things that have done fort saves or whatever can prevent brain removal.

A functional reprint of Robe of the Mage / Mage Robe of the Vale might be in order.
With Moonhide going out of PYP availability it would be nice to still have a +2 armor for wizard preferably at the rare level. Alternatively a +1 AC with some other survivability improvement like +hp, save, or even slight damage reduction (maybe fire reduction if we're roaming through some sort of hellscape next year).

Boots of Warmth (switching to Boots of Cooling)
But switch out frost reduction to fire reduction. Maybe this would be better in the new rares than reprint discussion, not sure.

Ring of Iron Will
If we're finally going to catch up to the mindflayer having a few of these in a normal level party would probably be appreciated

Ioun Stone Ruby Prism or Ioun Stone Ruby Rhombus
Again, at lower gear levels players are most interested in surviving to participate in all the rooms, this would help a bit towards that. Including both is probably too much of the available token space, but one could be interesting.

One of the various AC options in the neck slot (Torc/Necklace of Natural armor, Oakskin Medallion, Amulet of Armor)

Rare level Brawler's mug
Helps rogue damage after first round. Thematically makes sense that maybe the adventurer picked up a magic mug while roaming through Odin's halls. (And somehow both a friend and I have managed to misplace ours and would like new ones :) )

Belt of the Fey
Probably would need renaming to fit current dungeon themes, but heading into likely Mindflayer fight new players might feel the fight is more fair if they at least see a token that would have worked to prevent them from getting controlled. Alternatively it could be tweaked to a significant wisdom boost to provide an alternate option for Cleric/Druid trying to equip Divine Sight or just a big will save or save to charming effects.

Monk's red belt
Mostly just because it's been a few years, probably few people would really use it as anybody with access to Str+ belts probably go that direction instead.

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2019 Reprinted Token Suggestions 1 year 10 months ago #57

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Joshua Long wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: 1) I think Cloak of Shadowskin is too powerful and should never be reprinted, IMO.


It has already been printed and thus the cats already out of the bag one could say.

With the addition of epic this year I see this reprint as a token that starts people on the path of trying hard difficulties and thus getting deeper into the game in many aspects.


Plus, you could argue that if a token is overpowered, it actually balances the game by reprinting it and getting it into the hands of more people. It makes the overall player base more balanced. For instance, if Mad Evoker's Charm were reprinted, Nightmare and Epic could be designed assuming most magic users at that level are using it.


I don't think we should be making assumptions about builds. Particularly at the high levels, we should be able to encourage build variability, not hammer everyone over the head with "you have to use these tokens, or you're clearly inferior"


I agree with that, but it would open up the option for people to use the MEC. Our spellcasters don't use it even though I have it, they prefer to have the ability to change the damage type. I do think Nightmare and Epic damage levels already take MEC into account to some degree.


I agree a reprint would give more people access to it and therefore open up options, which is a good thing.

I don't understand why you mentioned your spellcasters preferring to change the damage type, as they could do both if they so chose.

I truly hope Nightmare and Epic levels don't assume much of anything about builds other than a relative level of gear, and a certain amount of masochism on the part of the players.


I mentioned that because when they made that decision, the only way to get the INT high enough for the MEC was the Hat of Intellect, which is the same slot as the Crown of Elemental Mastery. I do realize now that there are other ways also to get there, but I'm not in any hurry to outfit them with it, because my group prefers to play Hardcore level, and the Wizards already do a disproportionate amount of damage. I think combat would be too easy at that level if they also had MECs. Just like, rather than outfit our combat classes strictly for melee, I've outfitted many of them to be good at both Melee and Ranged, which works out very well for Hardcore level.

I think Nightmare and especially Epic difficulty levels should take into account BIS builds when scaling the monsters for combat, in order to make it sufficiently difficult. I'd guess they already do that to some degree. I think Epic in particular should challenge BIS builds.

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2019 Reprinted Token Suggestions 1 year 10 months ago #58

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The Cabal set is an interesting suggestion. It's pretty powerful if the whole team uses them, but nearly worthless on it's own. The set bonus is the same as the Bracelets of the Zephyr, so if you have both, the Cabal set loses even more worth unless one has the members to support it.

I'd rather seen a new set that is similar but more independently useful.
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2019 Reprinted Token Suggestions 1 year 10 months ago #59

Xavon wrote: The Cabal set is an interesting suggestion. It's pretty powerful if the whole team uses them, but nearly worthless on it's own. The set bonus is the same as the Bracelets of the Zephyr, so if you have both, the Cabal set loses even more worth unless one has the members to support it.

I'd rather seen a new set that is similar but more independently useful.


Not quite.

tokendb.com/token/bracelets-of-the-cabal/

The cabal set is substantially better than bracelets of the zephyr.

I love the idea of expanding the set. Reprinting could be fun too.
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2019 Reprinted Token Suggestions 1 year 10 months ago #60

Another vote for Briano’s (or a functional equivalent).

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