TOPIC: 2019 Volunteer & Other Special Token Suggestions

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Given that there will be a TE UR available for purchase every year for the foreseeable future (at least through 2026) I don't think there is a need to also have TE as Volunteer tokens. And I do think that it will create a large amount of unhappiness in all the players that want to have max Treasure Pulls and aren't able to get their hands on these. I'm sure Jeff has the numbers, but I have no doubt that the number of Ioun Stone Silver Nuggets purchased dwarfs the amount of Volunteer tokens given out in a year.

What if volunteers were given out print urtes every other year?

Like, 2019 vol could be ioun stone silver nugget, 2021 vol could be whatever the 2019 ioun urte is?

That way vol tokens are sure to have some value, without changing the loot cap.

Wayne Rhodes wrote: Just a proposal for a option for volunteers that work more than one con. What if you had the option between the volunteer token or a package of a PYP and 5k gold chip.

I suspect both of these may be somewhat more difficult to execute then just giving out a fixed token.

Maybe we could do away with the tokens at the checkout desk entirely and give out some sort of code/voucher remediable for 1-2 next year PYP through the sites store.

Picc wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Given that there will be a TE UR available for purchase every year for the foreseeable future (at least through 2026) I don't think there is a need to also have TE as Volunteer tokens. And I do think that it will create a large amount of unhappiness in all the players that want to have max Treasure Pulls and aren't able to get their hands on these. I'm sure Jeff has the numbers, but I have no doubt that the number of Ioun Stone Silver Nuggets purchased dwarfs the amount of Volunteer tokens given out in a year.

What if volunteers were given out print urtes every other year?

Like, 2019 vol could be ioun stone silver nugget, 2021 vol could be whatever the 2019 ioun urte is?

That way vol tokens are sure to have some value, without changing the loot cap.

Wayne Rhodes wrote: Just a proposal for a option for volunteers that work more than one con. What if you had the option between the volunteer token or a package of a PYP and 5k gold chip.

I suspect both of these may be somewhat more difficult to execute then just giving out a fixed token.

Maybe we could do away with the tokens at the checkout desk entirely and give out some sort of code/voucher remediable for 1-2 next year PYP through the sites store.

For one conversation I still like the idea of volunteer tokens, my suggestion was for people volunteering at 2 to 4 events a year.

Kirk Bauer wrote:

bpsymington wrote: I know the price increase has been an issue. I didn't do N3, and a big reason was the cost (I was the N3 AC, so I had seen everything and knew all the puzzles). Gave me ore to spend on boardgames! My regret is that this will knock me way down on the list of top players.

But as far as the price goes, I like to think about how the experience compares to other things: I went to the Hollywood Bowl this week, for a screening of Star Wars: A New Hope with the LA Philharmonic playing all the music live. That was like $75 a ticket. A Broadway show can be hundreds more.

I hope the next price increase isn't too onerous.

I really think than GenCon 2019 is the year for NO price increases for True Dungeon. I mean the $78 price was originally done as part of dropping down to ~6000 tickets. Then we ended back up to about 8000 tickets anyways.

GenCon 2017 dungeon runs were about $480k in revenue by my math. GenCon 2018 dungeon runs were about $555k by my math. Yes I know Jeff spent more, but then again Viper's Pit should have been almost free (other than volunteers).

Jeff did get additional space this year in the form of using the swing space for the epilogue room. That may have introduced some new costs. Given that this year several combat rooms had multiple DMs (at times), I wonder if there were a few additional volunteers on the roster as well. Each of those can likely be counted as around $500 of additional cost (maybe more). I'd also be extremely surprised if the usual costs (space rental, use of the facilities crew, A/C, etc) didn't increase every year. Sure, $75k sounds like a big jump (wait, does it really?), but I'm sure it gets eaten up quickly.

I'd personally love to see ticket costs not increase, but it isn't likely realistic.

As for cost comparisons, I'm sure we all have different judgment. My personal mental comparison is to escape rooms. I still feel like TD (even at GC prices) comes out ahead on that, which is how I make myself ok with the cost.

Fiddy wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote:

bpsymington wrote: I know the price increase has been an issue. I didn't do N3, and a big reason was the cost (I was the N3 AC, so I had seen everything and knew all the puzzles). Gave me ore to spend on boardgames! My regret is that this will knock me way down on the list of top players.

But as far as the price goes, I like to think about how the experience compares to other things: I went to the Hollywood Bowl this week, for a screening of Star Wars: A New Hope with the LA Philharmonic playing all the music live. That was like $75 a ticket. A Broadway show can be hundreds more.

I hope the next price increase isn't too onerous.

I really think than GenCon 2019 is the year for NO price increases for True Dungeon. I mean the $78 price was originally done as part of dropping down to ~6000 tickets. Then we ended back up to about 8000 tickets anyways.

GenCon 2017 dungeon runs were about $480k in revenue by my math. GenCon 2018 dungeon runs were about $555k by my math. Yes I know Jeff spent more, but then again Viper's Pit should have been almost free (other than volunteers).

Jeff did get additional space this year in the form of using the swing space for the epilogue room. That may have introduced some new costs. Given that this year several combat rooms had multiple DMs (at times), I wonder if there were a few additional volunteers on the roster as well. Each of those can likely be counted as around $500 of additional cost (maybe more). I'd also be extremely surprised if the usual costs (space rental, use of the facilities crew, A/C, etc) didn't increase every year. Sure, $75k sounds like a big jump (wait, does it really?), but I'm sure it gets eaten up quickly.

I'd personally love to see ticket costs not increase, but it isn't likely realistic.

As for cost comparisons, I'm sure we all have different judgment. My personal mental comparison is to escape rooms. I still feel like TD (even at GC prices) comes out ahead on that, which is how I make myself ok with the cost.

Be that all as it may, I feel like we are definitely either at or very quickly approaching a tipping point on the ticket price as TD runs and GenCon badges are getting fairly close in price. I know I just flat out lost a few group members this year, and I dont think Im alone in that.

Picc wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Given that there will be a TE UR available for purchase every year for the foreseeable future (at least through 2026) I don't think there is a need to also have TE as Volunteer tokens. And I do think that it will create a large amount of unhappiness in all the players that want to have max Treasure Pulls and aren't able to get their hands on these. I'm sure Jeff has the numbers, but I have no doubt that the number of Ioun Stone Silver Nuggets purchased dwarfs the amount of Volunteer tokens given out in a year.

What if volunteers were given out print urtes every other year?

Like, 2019 vol could be ioun stone silver nugget, 2021 vol could be whatever the 2019 ioun urte is?

That way vol tokens are sure to have some value, without changing the loot cap.

Wayne Rhodes wrote: Just a proposal for a option for volunteers that work more than one con. What if you had the option between the volunteer token or a package of a PYP and 5k gold chip.

I suspect both of these may be somewhat more difficult to execute then just giving out a fixed token.

Maybe we could do away with the tokens at the checkout desk entirely and give out some sort of code/voucher remediable for 1-2 next year PYP through the sites store.

Interesting idea, i like the idea that vol tokens are useful and i keep mine as a memento of that particular given con. Voucher not a bad idea, basically sets the value of a vol token at 100~ or whatever pyp is going for in a given year.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Given that there will be a TE UR available for purchase every year for the foreseeable future (at least through 2026) I don't think there is a need to also have TE as Volunteer tokens. And I do think that it will create a large amount of unhappiness in all the players that want to have max Treasure Pulls and aren't able to get their hands on these. I'm sure Jeff has the numbers, but I have no doubt that the number of Ioun Stone Silver Nuggets purchased dwarfs the amount of Volunteer tokens given out in a year.

What if volunteers were given out print urtes every other year?

Like, 2019 vol could be ioun stone silver nugget, 2021 vol could be whatever the 2019 ioun urte is?

That way vol tokens are sure to have some value, without changing the loot cap.

Wouldn't that negatively impact token sales? I'd think a lot of people would hold off on buying them because they were going to get them for free later. I'd think it would be best to save the TE URs for token sales, and do something different for Volunteer tokens. Just my two cents.

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Given that there will be a TE UR available for purchase every year for the foreseeable future (at least through 2026) I don't think there is a need to also have TE as Volunteer tokens. And I do think that it will create a large amount of unhappiness in all the players that want to have max Treasure Pulls and aren't able to get their hands on these. I'm sure Jeff has the numbers, but I have no doubt that the number of Ioun Stone Silver Nuggets purchased dwarfs the amount of Volunteer tokens given out in a year.

What if volunteers were given out print urtes every other year?

Like, 2019 vol could be ioun stone silver nugget, 2021 vol could be whatever the 2019 ioun urte is?

That way vol tokens are sure to have some value, without changing the loot cap.

Wouldn't that negatively impact token sales? I'd think a lot of people would hold off on buying them because they were going to get them for free later. I'd think it would be best to save the TE URs for token sales, and do something different for Volunteer tokens. Just my two cents.

So if you had to pick would you rather not have a vol TE because there wouldn't be enough to supply the market or not give vols UR vouchers because there are to many vols and it would impact sales?

I'm not trying to be difficult (and perfectly willing to retract it if you tell me I'm wrong) but it seems like you might not be arguing one hundred percent in good faith at this point Mike.

Also I cant speak for anyone else but my token spending is more or less fixed every year (and almost always short of what I'd take if I had access to more PYPs)

MasterED wrote:

Picc wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Encouraging vets to buy out tickets because they can subsidize their tickets squeezes out the newbies who can’t. And without newbies, token sales and TD withers and dies.

I think this is where we differ.I don't actually believe that newbies are being squeezed out or that vets are buying out runs because treasure is such an attractive value proposition. At least not yet, not at gencon anyway. GHC rarely sells out, and while I cant speak for Origins or Pax having never been to either of those I imagine its the same. From my experence a fairly large number of the people coming through my coaching room every year are new anyway.

I can only speak for me, and since I am TD Vet and have access to all the TE's for max treasure I can tell you I have consistently bought less and less runs at GC over the last 3 years. I didn't even run N3 there. I am only planning on doing a few runs at the other cons as well. I would be interested in hearing from other TD Vets to see if their ticket buying trends have changed.

Regardless, I think the volunteer token should be significant (not necessarily a TE) and I would suggest there be than 1 for a year to keep the supply lower and encourage more volunteering.

Ed

I gave up most of my runs at origins to volunteer and extra day, I did one run at origins originally scheduled 4. I am doing 4 runs at GHC. I don't expect to attend gencon due to cost in the future unless I volunteer full time.

How about (sticking with the.voucher idea) 3 vouchers could be turned in for a $250 pack when the next years tokens ship. 4 vouchers could be used for a $500 pack when the new tokens ship.

Bob Chasan wrote: How about (sticking with the.voucher idea) 3 vouchers could be turned in for a $250 pack when the next years tokens ship. 4 vouchers could be used for a $500 pack when the new tokens ship.

I like the idea, however I'm not sure it would be feasible as it would represent a greater cost to TD. Remember it costs them the same amount to print a Common as an UR and then there's postage to consider on all the extra weight.

Picc wrote:

Bob Chasan wrote: How about (sticking with the.voucher idea) 3 vouchers could be turned in for a $250 pack when the next years tokens ship. 4 vouchers could be used for a $500 pack when the new tokens ship.

I like the idea, however I'm not sure it would be feasible as it would represent a greater cost to TD. Remember it costs them the same amount to print a Common as an UR and then there's postage to consider on all the extra weight.

Sorry but that’s wrong thinking. In HR it’s proven by many studies that replacing an employee costs 2.5 times the annual salary of the employee.
Why is this relevant?
TD wants and needs qualified and experienced volunteers so the cost of shipping is negligible compared to having a qualified and experienced worker.

Bob Chasan wrote:

Picc wrote:

Bob Chasan wrote: How about (sticking with the.voucher idea) 3 vouchers could be turned in for a $250 pack when the next years tokens ship. 4 vouchers could be used for a $500 pack when the new tokens ship.

I like the idea, however I'm not sure it would be feasible as it would represent a greater cost to TD. Remember it costs them the same amount to print a Common as an UR and then there's postage to consider on all the extra weight.

Sorry but that’s wrong thinking. In HR it’s proven by many studies that replacing an employee costs 2.5 times the annual salary of the employee.
Why is this relevant?
TD wants and needs qualified and experienced volunteers so the cost of shipping is negligible compared to having a qualified and experienced worker.

I'm sorry, I fail to see why TD would be at risk of loosing volunteers? Sure if they used to give out $250 value packs then stopped I could see people being annoyed but were talking about future possibilities. All I'm pointing out is that giving out an UR represents a small fix cost, giving out a value pack represents a larger cost. If Td wants/ can afford to give us a raise cool, but to be honest it's not going to affect my desire to come back one way or the other and I'd rather they kept their costs down so it doesn't get reflected in the tickets.