TOPIC: 2019 Transmuted Token Suggestions (Non-Kilt)

Wade Schwendemann wrote:
I think if we are valuing it as a UR, the amount of trade goods should roughly equal a PyP, which the CoGF was when it came out.

My reasoning for suggesting it give one less chip then the CoGf was to keep the transmute cost down. Even at that level is would still be possible to get 3 bonus chips out of it, which would be more then the current ioun stones.

MasterED wrote: I would suggest a new thread focused on this topic that TPTB could read through. Also, I would suggest that the community start thinking about the logistics issue (size and weight) of the treasure tokens. If you raise the average significantly, with a capped transmuted TE TD has to bring a lot more tokens. For example (these numbers are just arbitrary):

8,000 Tickets x 5 average treasure pulls* = 40,000 treasure tokens

8,000 Tickets x 7.25 average treasure pulls* = 58,000 treasure tokens (45% more quantity and [18] 1,000 count trays totaling over 450 pounds)

* Arbitrary numbers based upon 1,000 max treasure tickets (100 runs) and 2,000 (200 runs) capped treasure tickets (12).

What logistical ideas can the group come up with to minimize the effort of bringing a truckload of treasure tokens to each convention?

Ed

What about something like a fixed buy back of treasure chips. ie turn in 100 pulls worth of yellow tokens get a PYP. We could have similar buy prices for Trade good too, or lets chips be turned in for something else entirely like access to a prestige card, special buttons, or ribbons to hang from your badge like mayfair does. Not sure if any of those are good ideas, just brainstorming.

@MasterED - they were probably going to be there in 2021 anyway after the next two Nuggets come out.

Picc wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:
I think if we are valuing it as a UR, the amount of trade goods should roughly equal a PyP, which the CoGF was when it came out.

My reasoning for suggesting it give one less chip then the CoGf was to keep the transmute cost down. Even at that level is would still be possible to get 3 bonus chips out of it, which would be more then the current ioun stones.

MasterED wrote: I would suggest a new thread focused on this topic that TPTB could read through. Also, I would suggest that the community start thinking about the logistics issue (size and weight) of the treasure tokens. If you raise the average significantly, with a capped transmuted TE TD has to bring a lot more tokens. For example (these numbers are just arbitrary):

8,000 Tickets x 5 average treasure pulls* = 40,000 treasure tokens

8,000 Tickets x 7.25 average treasure pulls* = 58,000 treasure tokens (45% more quantity and [18] 1,000 count trays totaling over 450 pounds)

* Arbitrary numbers based upon 1,000 max treasure tickets (100 runs) and 2,000 (200 runs) capped treasure tickets (12).

What logistical ideas can the group come up with to minimize the effort of bringing a truckload of treasure tokens to each convention?

Ed

What about something like a fixed buy back of treasure chips. ie turn in 100 pulls worth of yellow tokens get a PYP. We could have similar buy prices for Trade good too, or lets chips be turned in for something else entirely like access to a prestige card, special buttons, or ribbons to hang from your badge like mayfair does. Not sure if any of those are good ideas, just brainstorming.

Not that long ago there were lots of different options for treasure chips - buttons, mugs, etc. I'm guessing maybe those didn't get a lot of demand since those options went away.

MasterED wrote: logistical ideas

Someone's gonna need to plan for that...

Picc wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:
I think if we are valuing it as a UR, the amount of trade goods should roughly equal a PyP, which the CoGF was when it came out.

My reasoning for suggesting it give one less chip then the CoGf was to keep the transmute cost down. Even at that level is would still be possible to get 3 bonus chips out of it, which would be more then the current ioun stones.

MasterED wrote: I would suggest a new thread focused on this topic that TPTB could read through. Also, I would suggest that the community start thinking about the logistics issue (size and weight) of the treasure tokens. If you raise the average significantly, with a capped transmuted TE TD has to bring a lot more tokens. For example (these numbers are just arbitrary):

8,000 Tickets x 5 average treasure pulls* = 40,000 treasure tokens

8,000 Tickets x 7.25 average treasure pulls* = 58,000 treasure tokens (45% more quantity and [18] 1,000 count trays totaling over 450 pounds)

* Arbitrary numbers based upon 1,000 max treasure tickets (100 runs) and 2,000 (200 runs) capped treasure tickets (12).

What logistical ideas can the group come up with to minimize the effort of bringing a truckload of treasure tokens to each convention?

Ed

What about something like a fixed buy back of treasure chips. ie turn in 100 pulls worth of yellow tokens get a PYP. We could have similar buy prices for Trade good too, or lets chips be turned in for something else entirely like access to a prestige card, special buttons, or ribbons to hang from your badge like mayfair does. Not sure if any of those are good ideas, just brainstorming.

I like the idea, though I don't know if 100 is the right number. Particularly given the chance to pull a random UR is much lower than that, based on our information.

That said, I also think people don't want to face that reality, and setting 100 as the number may seem to some like we are setting the value of treasure pulls artificially low, as 18 pulls just went for $77 on ebay.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Picc wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:
I think if we are valuing it as a UR, the amount of trade goods should roughly equal a PyP, which the CoGF was when it came out.

My reasoning for suggesting it give one less chip then the CoGf was to keep the transmute cost down. Even at that level is would still be possible to get 3 bonus chips out of it, which would be more then the current ioun stones.

MasterED wrote: I would suggest a new thread focused on this topic that TPTB could read through. Also, I would suggest that the community start thinking about the logistics issue (size and weight) of the treasure tokens. If you raise the average significantly, with a capped transmuted TE TD has to bring a lot more tokens. For example (these numbers are just arbitrary):

8,000 Tickets x 5 average treasure pulls* = 40,000 treasure tokens

8,000 Tickets x 7.25 average treasure pulls* = 58,000 treasure tokens (45% more quantity and [18] 1,000 count trays totaling over 450 pounds)

* Arbitrary numbers based upon 1,000 max treasure tickets (100 runs) and 2,000 (200 runs) capped treasure tickets (12).

What logistical ideas can the group come up with to minimize the effort of bringing a truckload of treasure tokens to each convention?

Ed

What about something like a fixed buy back of treasure chips. ie turn in 100 pulls worth of yellow tokens get a PYP. We could have similar buy prices for Trade good too, or lets chips be turned in for something else entirely like access to a prestige card, special buttons, or ribbons to hang from your badge like mayfair does. Not sure if any of those are good ideas, just brainstorming.

I like the idea, though I don't know if 100 is the right number. Particularly given the chance to pull a random UR is much lower than that, based on our information.

That said, I also think people don't want to face that reality, and setting 100 as the number may seem to some like we are setting the value of treasure pulls artificially low, as 18 pulls just went for $77 on ebay.

There could be uneven demand for PYP, even at 100 chips trade in, too which still makes logistical issues. You probably want to set the second tier of treasure draw as a random purple out of a special box instead of a PYP, as that way you don't have to worry about stocking certain numbers of certain purples. Just want to be careful that the new and improved treasure box doesn't so eclipse the current treasure boxes that people never want to draw from the current ones.

Endgame wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Picc wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:
I think if we are valuing it as a UR, the amount of trade goods should roughly equal a PyP, which the CoGF was when it came out.

My reasoning for suggesting it give one less chip then the CoGf was to keep the transmute cost down. Even at that level is would still be possible to get 3 bonus chips out of it, which would be more then the current ioun stones.

MasterED wrote: I would suggest a new thread focused on this topic that TPTB could read through. Also, I would suggest that the community start thinking about the logistics issue (size and weight) of the treasure tokens. If you raise the average significantly, with a capped transmuted TE TD has to bring a lot more tokens. For example (these numbers are just arbitrary):

8,000 Tickets x 5 average treasure pulls* = 40,000 treasure tokens

8,000 Tickets x 7.25 average treasure pulls* = 58,000 treasure tokens (45% more quantity and [18] 1,000 count trays totaling over 450 pounds)

* Arbitrary numbers based upon 1,000 max treasure tickets (100 runs) and 2,000 (200 runs) capped treasure tickets (12).

What logistical ideas can the group come up with to minimize the effort of bringing a truckload of treasure tokens to each convention?

Ed

What about something like a fixed buy back of treasure chips. ie turn in 100 pulls worth of yellow tokens get a PYP. We could have similar buy prices for Trade good too, or lets chips be turned in for something else entirely like access to a prestige card, special buttons, or ribbons to hang from your badge like mayfair does. Not sure if any of those are good ideas, just brainstorming.

I like the idea, though I don't know if 100 is the right number. Particularly given the chance to pull a random UR is much lower than that, based on our information.

That said, I also think people don't want to face that reality, and setting 100 as the number may seem to some like we are setting the value of treasure pulls artificially low, as 18 pulls just went for $77 on ebay.

There could be uneven demand for PYP, even at 100 chips trade in, too which still makes logistical issues. You probably want to set the second tier of treasure draw as a random purple out of a special box instead of a PYP, as that way you don't have to worry about stocking certain numbers of certain purples. Just want to be careful that the new and improved treasure box doesn't so eclipse the current treasure boxes that people never want to draw from the current ones.

I doubt that would even need to be a True Dungeon program. If anyone is willing to trade 100 Treasure Chips for a single PYP, I'll bet they will get several takers.

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Picc wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:
I think if we are valuing it as a UR, the amount of trade goods should roughly equal a PyP, which the CoGF was when it came out.

My reasoning for suggesting it give one less chip then the CoGf was to keep the transmute cost down. Even at that level is would still be possible to get 3 bonus chips out of it, which would be more then the current ioun stones.

MasterED wrote: I would suggest a new thread focused on this topic that TPTB could read through. Also, I would suggest that the community start thinking about the logistics issue (size and weight) of the treasure tokens. If you raise the average significantly, with a capped transmuted TE TD has to bring a lot more tokens. For example (these numbers are just arbitrary):

8,000 Tickets x 5 average treasure pulls* = 40,000 treasure tokens

8,000 Tickets x 7.25 average treasure pulls* = 58,000 treasure tokens (45% more quantity and [18] 1,000 count trays totaling over 450 pounds)

* Arbitrary numbers based upon 1,000 max treasure tickets (100 runs) and 2,000 (200 runs) capped treasure tickets (12).

What logistical ideas can the group come up with to minimize the effort of bringing a truckload of treasure tokens to each convention?

Ed

What about something like a fixed buy back of treasure chips. ie turn in 100 pulls worth of yellow tokens get a PYP. We could have similar buy prices for Trade good too, or lets chips be turned in for something else entirely like access to a prestige card, special buttons, or ribbons to hang from your badge like mayfair does. Not sure if any of those are good ideas, just brainstorming.

I like the idea, though I don't know if 100 is the right number. Particularly given the chance to pull a random UR is much lower than that, based on our information.

That said, I also think people don't want to face that reality, and setting 100 as the number may seem to some like we are setting the value of treasure pulls artificially low, as 18 pulls just went for $77 on ebay.

There could be uneven demand for PYP, even at 100 chips trade in, too which still makes logistical issues. You probably want to set the second tier of treasure draw as a random purple out of a special box instead of a PYP, as that way you don't have to worry about stocking certain numbers of certain purples. Just want to be careful that the new and improved treasure box doesn't so eclipse the current treasure boxes that people never want to draw from the current ones.

I doubt that would even need to be a True Dungeon program. If anyone is willing to trade 100 Treasure Chips for a single PYP, I'll bet they will get several takers.

I'm sure the number needs tweaking, but I'll leave that discussion to you experts I think the logistical issues could be solved by a higher quality treasure box, at whatever volume was deemed fit ideal for exchange.

Endgame wrote: I'm sure the number needs tweaking, but I'll leave that discussion to you experts I think the logistical issues could be solved by a higher quality treasure box, at whatever volume was deemed fit ideal for exchange.

I like the idea of a premium treasure box (maybe at 10 TC per pull), with a mix TBD. Last time there were two mixes didn’t work out as planned... but it would reduce the tons of loot required.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Endgame wrote: I'm sure the number needs tweaking, but I'll leave that discussion to you experts I think the logistical issues could be solved by a higher quality treasure box, at whatever volume was deemed fit ideal for exchange.

I like the idea of a premium treasure box (maybe at 10 TC per pull), with a mix TBD. Last time there were two mixes didn’t work out as planned... but it would reduce the tons of loot required.

My first thought to Eds prompt was 'condensed treasure draws'. Similar to what is being discussed here; we already know that jeff uses percentages to determine the treasure mix. So, how about you turn in 100 treasure chips and get X draws from a special box. The special box is made up of the same mix of 'special' draws that go into the big treasure mix...but there are no uncommon, rare, or monster bits. The X draws you get is equal to the percentage of 'specials' in the regular box plus 1 (someone doing math may determine that this needs to be more). Effectively, you are trading every uncommon, rare, and monster bit you would draw from 100 pulls for one more special draw.

Keep in mind, these specials are not guaranteed to be valuable, there are trade goods and greaves in there, too.

Note: i dont expect that anyone would convert ALL their draws to this system, but if balanced properly, you will get many of us to split our draws (once i have enough monster bits, i just want better chances at URs).

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Picc wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:
I think if we are valuing it as a UR, the amount of trade goods should roughly equal a PyP, which the CoGF was when it came out.

My reasoning for suggesting it give one less chip then the CoGf was to keep the transmute cost down. Even at that level is would still be possible to get 3 bonus chips out of it, which would be more then the current ioun stones.

MasterED wrote: I would suggest a new thread focused on this topic that TPTB could read through. Also, I would suggest that the community start thinking about the logistics issue (size and weight) of the treasure tokens. If you raise the average significantly, with a capped transmuted TE TD has to bring a lot more tokens. For example (these numbers are just arbitrary):

8,000 Tickets x 5 average treasure pulls* = 40,000 treasure tokens

8,000 Tickets x 7.25 average treasure pulls* = 58,000 treasure tokens (45% more quantity and [18] 1,000 count trays totaling over 450 pounds)

* Arbitrary numbers based upon 1,000 max treasure tickets (100 runs) and 2,000 (200 runs) capped treasure tickets (12).

What logistical ideas can the group come up with to minimize the effort of bringing a truckload of treasure tokens to each convention?

Ed

What about something like a fixed buy back of treasure chips. ie turn in 100 pulls worth of yellow tokens get a PYP. We could have similar buy prices for Trade good too, or lets chips be turned in for something else entirely like access to a prestige card, special buttons, or ribbons to hang from your badge like mayfair does. Not sure if any of those are good ideas, just brainstorming.

I like the idea, though I don't know if 100 is the right number. Particularly given the chance to pull a random UR is much lower than that, based on our information.

That said, I also think people don't want to face that reality, and setting 100 as the number may seem to some like we are setting the value of treasure pulls artificially low, as 18 pulls just went for $77 on ebay.

There could be uneven demand for PYP, even at 100 chips trade in, too which still makes logistical issues. You probably want to set the second tier of treasure draw as a random purple out of a special box instead of a PYP, as that way you don't have to worry about stocking certain numbers of certain purples. Just want to be careful that the new and improved treasure box doesn't so eclipse the current treasure boxes that people never want to draw from the current ones.

I doubt that would even need to be a True Dungeon program. If anyone is willing to trade 100 Treasure Chips for a single PYP, I'll bet they will get several takers.

I'm sure the number needs tweaking, but I'll leave that discussion to you experts I think the logistical issues could be solved by a higher quality treasure box, at whatever volume was deemed fit ideal for exchange.

I'd recommend against different types of treasure boxes. There were lots of reports of people pulling from the wrong boxes in the past.

kurtreznor wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Endgame wrote: I'm sure the number needs tweaking, but I'll leave that discussion to you experts I think the logistical issues could be solved by a higher quality treasure box, at whatever volume was deemed fit ideal for exchange.

I like the idea of a premium treasure box (maybe at 10 TC per pull), with a mix TBD. Last time there were two mixes didn’t work out as planned... but it would reduce the tons of loot required.

My first thought to Eds prompt was 'condensed treasure draws'. Similar to what is being discussed here; we already know that jeff uses percentages to determine the treasure mix. So, how about you turn in 100 treasure chips and get X draws from a special box. The special box is made up of the same mix of 'special' draws that go into the big treasure mix...but there are no uncommon, rare, or monster bits. The X draws you get is equal to the percentage of 'specials' in the regular box plus 1 (someone doing math may determine that this needs to be more). Effectively, you are trading every uncommon, rare, and monster bit you would draw from 100 pulls for one more special draw.

Keep in mind, these specials are not guaranteed to be valuable, there are trade goods and greaves in there, too.

Note: i dont expect that anyone would convert ALL their draws to this system, but if balanced properly, you will get many of us to split our draws (once i have enough monster bits, i just want better chances at URs).

This sounds good at a 10 to 1 ratio.

I would argue leaving some of the monster bits in (we needs our Fleeces) but perhaps at a lower rate.