TOPIC: New Newsletter

Mike Steele wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: yes i did

Chad, just say the word and we can discuss it for another 10 pages.

people like to argue..so at least this isnt religion or politics

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: politics

Someone, say politics???

Not meaning to be a butt, but...

The artifact was made in the past and yes did cost money. Things move forward.

This is similar to the past debate about the HoP, and those that wanted the reprint when Drueger said along the lines "Dear Wizards of the Coast, I really wanted a Black Lotus and I got in late, could you reprint it"..

It was made, things changed it is not as useful. I personally would still like a Rod of Seven parts, that I only have pieces too, but things change, not saying that change is necessarily good.

Sometimes armor and other items become less useful as new things are printed.

Just being the devil's advocate.

Lordoftherealm wrote: Not meaning to be a butt, but...

The artifact was made in the past and yes did cost money. Things move forward.

This is similar to the past debate about the HoP, and those that wanted the reprint when Drueger said along the lines "Dear Wizards of the Coast, I really wanted a Black Lotus and I got in late, could you reprint it"..

It was made, things changed it is not as useful. I personally would still like a Rod of Seven parts, that I only have pieces too, but things change, not saying that change is necessarily good.

Sometimes armor and other items become less useful as new things are printed.

Just being the devil's advocate.

LOTR, this is completely different. Nothing to be gained by playing devil's advocate. This isn't a "it's not fair, I wasn't able to buy X UR when it was available in 20XX" issue. It's a one person had his unique item nerfed issue.

Artifacts are in a class all their own, and cost more than multiple legendaries to make.
My opinion: it's not unreasonable for Chad to feel ambivalent about the situation.

Beyond that: not my circus, not my monkey.

Lordoftherealm wrote: This is similar to the past debate about the HoP, and those that wanted the reprint when Drueger said along the lines "Dear Wizards of the Coast, I really wanted a Black Lotus and I got in late, could you reprint it"..

Don't be draggin' my name into this !

Joshua Baessler wrote: LOTR, this is completely different. Nothing to be gained by playing devil's advocate. This isn't a "it's not fair, I wasn't able to buy X UR when it was available in 20XX" issue. It's a one person had his unique item nerfed issue.

There are well-known cases where early Artifact owners wanted Effect X on their artifacts but Jeff told them they couldn't have it because it was too powerful. And then a few years later, Jeff changes his mind and allows the newer Artifacts to have Effect X.

Some of those early Artifact owners were upset about that. Yet there was no revisions to the early Artifacts.

In terms of power creep, Gearon's Cloak was the best Cloak (+3 saves) for a while. But Dougal's Cloak made it less special (unless I am misremembering the order of what was printed first). In any case, the Relic/Legendary Cloaks (+4 and +6 to saves) make Gearon's Cloak very sad.

Also, when Caitlin's Charm was printed there weren't many charms out there (side effect: cannot wear other charms). If David Terry still played, I'm sure he would probably be a bit annoyed by the Charm of Avarice. Should he get a chance to revise his side effect?

While I personally disagree with this new change to treasure and am sympathetic towards Lazlo, I think the "minimum 3 stamps" is really the least of his artifact's abilities (compared to extra slot, +10 treasure, and auto-succeed on Rogue tests." Just like how the "immunity to surprise" aspect of Gertz's Radiant Backpack is really a secondary effect, not the primary.

How often has Lazlo's party gotten less than 3 stamps? In effect, how relevant has the "minimum 3 stamps" ability actually been?

The bigger issue is that this could lead to a precedence of allowing artifacts to be changed/updated/reforged, which may open up a whole new can of worms. For example, for years there has been speculative talk about some people wanting to acquire old Soulbound artifacts from no longer active players, in the hopes that they might convince Jeff to let them reforge those artifacts....

Incognito wrote: How often has Lazlo's party gotten less than 3 stamps? In effect, how relevant has the "minimum 3 stamps" ability actually been?

Good point, even if he runs say 20 times, if his group earns on average 2 stamps per run (instead of the full 3), that's only 20 extra pulls. Worth what, maybe $50 total per year?

So yeah, he has a valid complaint I think, but it's pretty minor.

Jeff321 wrote:

Incognito wrote: How often has Lazlo's party gotten less than 3 stamps? In effect, how relevant has the "minimum 3 stamps" ability actually been?

Good point, even if he runs say 20 times, if his group earns on average 2 stamps per run (instead of the full 3), that's only 20 extra pulls. Worth what, maybe $50 total per year?

So yeah, he has a valid complaint I think, but it's pretty minor.

It's been awhile since I've been in a run where we didn't get full stamps.

Firstly, a fair number of tokenholic forumite runs include Troubadours. Even though Lazlo doesn't need Treasure Finding, it could be that his 9 other party members use Treasure Finding anyway.

This year, all 4 of my runs involved max treasure with Treasure Finding (3rd stamp due to Carter's Tome).

Secondly, even without Treasure Finding, it's been awhile since I missed out on a treasure stamp. It could be that Lazlo's parties are already getting 3 stamps anyway, as is.

This year, all 4 of my runs would have gotten max treasure stamps even without Treasure Finding.

It's worth noting that the artifact holders have gotten years of benefits from the artifacts already, that has to be worth something.

Sigh.

Lots of people have had tokens neutralized by time, game changes and new tokens.

Can I get a refund on our three charms of awareness and rod of nil tongue that were cool when they came out and are now pretty much dog poo?