TOPIC: New Newsletter

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: The whole fifth-dungeon thing is a pipe-dream, and really far from the point I was trying to make. But, I'd be happy to see one, because that would mean our community of players and volunteers was growing.

I expect Jeff finds a way to expand further before long, the demand is there.

True Dungeon Con (whos yer con style or as a second place you can attend a given years TD)

Sorry for the minor thread necromancy, but I'm about to double it with my Mad Divine Invoker's Lenses of Charmed Sight!

Earlier in the discussion about the "everyone gets 3 treasure stamps," there was a brief mention of how some people who might have gotten the completed Rod primarily for the Troubadour would be getting hosed by the change (though others point out that the Rod has other effects).

I just find that a little ironic considering just a few months ago, when we had that discussion about possibly errata'ing the Eldritch set (so that it doesn't combine with the Lenses of Divine Sight), we had a number of players complain that they had gotten the Eldritch items just for the healing (even though it was pointed out that the Rod has other effects).

Just found the whole thing amusing!

Incognito wrote: Sorry for the minor thread necromancy, but I'm about to double it with my Mad Divine Invoker's Lenses of Charmed Sight!

Earlier in the discussion about the "everyone gets 3 treasure stamps," there was a brief mention of how some people who might have gotten the completed Rod primarily for the Troubadour would be getting hosed by the change (though others point out that the Rod has other effects).

I just find that a little ironic considering just a few months ago, when we had that discussion about possibly errata'ing the Eldritch set (so that it doesn't combine with the Lenses of Divine Sight), we had a number of players complain that they had gotten the Eldritch items just for the healing (even though it was pointed out that the Rod has other effects).

Just found the whole thing amusing!

Where you stand depends on where you sit.

In my opinion, the vast majority of people made the RoSP because they could. A lot of folks were saving up parts for years before they even knew what, if anything, it would do. I doubt there are many people who could honestly say they never would have made it if they'd known (insert any proposed change here).

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Incognito wrote: Sorry for the minor thread necromancy, but I'm about to double it with my Mad Divine Invoker's Lenses of Charmed Sight!

Earlier in the discussion about the "everyone gets 3 treasure stamps," there was a brief mention of how some people who might have gotten the completed Rod primarily for the Troubadour would be getting hosed by the change (though others point out that the Rod has other effects).

I just find that a little ironic considering just a few months ago, when we had that discussion about possibly errata'ing the Eldritch set (so that it doesn't combine with the Lenses of Divine Sight), we had a number of players complain that they had gotten the Eldritch items just for the healing (even though it was pointed out that the Rod has other effects).

Just found the whole thing amusing!

Where you stand depends on where you sit.

In my opinion, the vast majority of people made the RoSP because they could. A lot of folks were saving up parts for years before they even knew what, if anything, it would do. I doubt there are many people who could honestly say they never would have made it if they'd known (insert any proposed change here).

I agree with you.

Also, usually it's a combination of factors rather than just one thing. So instead of someone getting the Rod ONLY for the healing or ONLY for the Troubadour, it's probably something like this (in a hypothetical case):

30% Healing
30% Financial incentives
15% Troubadour
10% Slotless +1 level
5% Other prestige classes
5% Ignoring damage reduction / spell resistance
5% Gambling for the three-piece set

Incognito wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Incognito wrote: Sorry for the minor thread necromancy, but I'm about to double it with my Mad Divine Invoker's Lenses of Charmed Sight!

Earlier in the discussion about the "everyone gets 3 treasure stamps," there was a brief mention of how some people who might have gotten the completed Rod primarily for the Troubadour would be getting hosed by the change (though others point out that the Rod has other effects).

I just find that a little ironic considering just a few months ago, when we had that discussion about possibly errata'ing the Eldritch set (so that it doesn't combine with the Lenses of Divine Sight), we had a number of players complain that they had gotten the Eldritch items just for the healing (even though it was pointed out that the Rod has other effects).

Just found the whole thing amusing!

Where you stand depends on where you sit.

In my opinion, the vast majority of people made the RoSP because they could. A lot of folks were saving up parts for years before they even knew what, if anything, it would do. I doubt there are many people who could honestly say they never would have made it if they'd known (insert any proposed change here).

I agree with you.

Also, usually it's a combination of factors rather than just one thing. So instead of someone getting the Rod ONLY for the healing or ONLY for the Troubadour, it's probably something like this (in a hypothetical case):

30% Healing
30% Financial incentives
15% Troubadour
10% Slotless +1 level
5% Other prestige classes
5% Ignoring damage reduction / spell resistance
5% Gambling for the three-piece set

You forgot about 1% of us. The downsizer. I did it to convert 7 individual Rod parts into one.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Incognito wrote: Sorry for the minor thread necromancy, but I'm about to double it with my Mad Divine Invoker's Lenses of Charmed Sight!

Earlier in the discussion about the "everyone gets 3 treasure stamps," there was a brief mention of how some people who might have gotten the completed Rod primarily for the Troubadour would be getting hosed by the change (though others point out that the Rod has other effects).

I just find that a little ironic considering just a few months ago, when we had that discussion about possibly errata'ing the Eldritch set (so that it doesn't combine with the Lenses of Divine Sight), we had a number of players complain that they had gotten the Eldritch items just for the healing (even though it was pointed out that the Rod has other effects).



Just found the whole thing amusing!

Where you stand depends on where you sit.

In my opinion, the vast majority of people made the RoSP because they could. A lot of folks were saving up parts for years before they even knew what, if anything, it would do. I doubt there are many people who could honestly say they never would have made it if they'd known (insert any proposed change here).

Im a sample of one, but no, I would not have taken the substantial plunge to acquire a SRoEC and the parts for the RoSP otherwise.

Incognito wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Incognito wrote: Sorry for the minor thread necromancy, but I'm about to double it with my Mad Divine Invoker's Lenses of Charmed Sight!

Earlier in the discussion about the "everyone gets 3 treasure stamps," there was a brief mention of how some people who might have gotten the completed Rod primarily for the Troubadour would be getting hosed by the change (though others point out that the Rod has other effects).

I just find that a little ironic considering just a few months ago, when we had that discussion about possibly errata'ing the Eldritch set (so that it doesn't combine with the Lenses of Divine Sight), we had a number of players complain that they had gotten the Eldritch items just for the healing (even though it was pointed out that the Rod has other effects).

Just found the whole thing amusing!

Where you stand depends on where you sit.

In my opinion, the vast majority of people made the RoSP because they could. A lot of folks were saving up parts for years before they even knew what, if anything, it would do. I doubt there are many people who could honestly say they never would have made it if they'd known (insert any proposed change here).

I agree with you.

Also, usually it's a combination of factors rather than just one thing. So instead of someone getting the Rod ONLY for the healing or ONLY for the Troubadour, it's probably something like this (in a hypothetical case):

30% Healing
30% Financial incentives
15% Troubadour
10% Slotless +1 level
5% Other prestige classes
5% Ignoring damage reduction / spell resistance
5% Gambling for the three-piece set

Look we know you hate the lenses & eldritched healing but honestly man just let it go. There are other fights far more worth having. Besides which it smacks a little hypocritical when your condemning people for bringing up the same idea over and over to try and sneak through power creep in one thread and your bringing this up again here.

Picc wrote: Look we know you hate the lenses & eldritched healing but honestly man just let it go. There are other fights far more worth having. Besides which it smacks a little hypocritical when your condemning people for bringing up the same idea over and over to try and sneak through power creep in one thread and your bringing this up again here.

???

My point is that maybe people should give more credence to the idea that the "three treasure stamps" messes with those who were motivated by the Troubadour, just like how the proposed Eldritch set change messed with those motivated by the healing.

I am NOT advocating that we change the Eldritch set. I wouldn't mind if it did happen, but I don't think it's going to happen, given the post WYC thread. Not to mention, I wasn't even the one that had initiated that proposed change (it was Druegar).

So no, I am not bringing up the same idea. Because I am not advocating a change to the Eldritch set. I am drawing parallels between the treasure stamps rule change and the Eldritch set rule change.

And in fact, the only reason I even looked up that old thread was because of Arcanist's post about proposing to change Mad Evoker's Charm to make it more similar to the Lenses.

And for reference, I'm not the only one who does think the combo is overpowered:

Dennis Burdick wrote: I agree with Incognito, that the Divine Lense & Eldrich set combo is too powerful. If "cast as a scroll" is good for the arcane, it should "equally" apply to the divine, too.

So Picc, I think you are misreading the situation here!

Picc wrote: Look we know you hate the lenses & eldritched healing but honestly man just let it go. There are other fights far more worth having. Besides which it smacks a little hypocritical when your condemning people for bringing up the same idea over and over to try and sneak through power creep in one thread and your bringing this up again here.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I am annoyed by your insinuation.

1. The first time around (after WYC) it was Druegar who brought the Eldritch set / Lenses combo to Jeff's attention and had worked on instituting the change. (Once it was publicly revealed, I supported it, but I didn't start it).

2. Most recently, it was ARCANIST who actually revived the topic here:

truedungeon.com/forum?func=view&catid=589&id=239528

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I'm asking that the word BASE on the Mad Evoker's Charm be removed. The reason is really simple. The ruling on the Lenses of Divine Sight in relation to the Eldritch 2 piece set bonus. Specifically the fact that the doubled spell from the lenses gain the full bonus to healing and are then applied to both targets. This specifically overruled the healing bonuses across multiple targets rule.

....

And given that the Eldritch 2 piece set bonus ruling allows healing to double the entire effect, not simply the printed effect it would seem fair to have the Mad Evoker's Charm double the entire effect as well.

It would increase the damage output of evoker wizards however it's still worth remembering that the overall damage output of a Wizard across the full 14 spells cast will come in significantly below sliding classes as has been shown several times. Additionally the damage bonus to the spells is SIGNIFICANTLY lower than the healing bonus provided via the Lenses of Divine Sight. And the lenses do not have an opportunity cost to use, whereas the Mad Evoker's Charm does.

After seeing Arcanist's thread, I looked up the old thread on the issue and posted a reply to Arcanist. But looking up the old thread made me realize a parallel to this issue.

But if you want to blame someone for bringing up the Eldritch / Lenses combo, you can blame ARCANIST. NOT ME!

If only there were new tokens to open...

MasterED wrote: If only there were new tokens to open...

Nah, we just need recipes to argue about.

Harlax wrote:

MasterED wrote: If only there were new tokens to open...

Nah, we just need recipes to argue about.

Yeah, I'm worried about the Boots of the Four Winds recipe, the tokens needed besides the 4 pairs of boots.