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TOPIC: New Newsletter

Re: New Newsletter 8 years 9 months ago #13

Sadly, there was no mention of the "free beer" room Jeff spoke of earlier


Jeff Martin wrote:

Harlax wrote: Like it

Though in a perverse way I'll miss the adrenaline rush of calling out "treasure room."


How about we replace it with "Free Beer Room!"?

D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir

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Re: New Newsletter 8 years 9 months ago #14

bpsymington wrote: I know some people might not like the automatic three tokens, but it does address some concerns.

- no need to worry about the "right" way to solve a puzzle
- no need to worry about a certain number of failures costing your party a stamp
- no need to worry about DM consistency as far as treasure is concerned (of course, we will try very hard to make sure DMs are consistently excellent)
- good for new players who would get discouraged by getting only one stamp (or none)
- removes question of whether you get a stamp for just surviving room 7 if you don't defeat the boss monster.


Yeah I agree. TD does lose something by not having treasure stamps anymore, but I can certainly see the benefits. And new players, or people who only run once per year, will get the biggest benefit from this change. That's a good thing.
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Re: New Newsletter 8 years 9 months ago #15

It's simply the most rational business decision.

Having more than a few new players leaving frustrated and making forum posts explaining their frustration and lack of future interest over the loss of a few meager treasure stamps is a self inflicted wound.

It's nice to see TD is at least trying to minimize the autodamage.
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Re: New Newsletter 8 years 9 months ago #16

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lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

bpsymington wrote: I know some people might not like the automatic three tokens, but it does address some concerns.

- no need to worry about the "right" way to solve a puzzle
- no need to worry about a certain number of failures costing your party a stamp
- no need to worry about DM consistency as far as treasure is concerned (of course, we will try very hard to make sure DMs are consistently excellent)
- good for new players who would get discouraged by getting only one stamp (or none)
- removes question of whether you get a stamp for just surviving room 7 if you don't defeat the boss monster.

it hurts my artifact..so yea i dont like it..i didnt like the change in HoP last year because it hurt it too...


Sorry about that, Lazlo.
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Re: New Newsletter 8 years 9 months ago #17

MasterED wrote:

Pstyle wrote: I got the email. I dont know how i feel about it. I recommrnded one treasure chip minimum if a party was not able to figure stuff out or got screwed.
But giving all 3 treasure chips? Will there be any reward feeling in the dungeon if the treasure is already obtained guaranteed? It seems great for new people, but not for the people who love fighting and solving stuff for rewards.

I think you are right - we are now paying for an experience rather than a game. I understand why the change but I think it brings its own negatives.

Ed


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Re: New Newsletter 8 years 9 months ago #18

bpsymington wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

bpsymington wrote: I know some people might not like the automatic three tokens, but it does address some concerns.

- no need to worry about the "right" way to solve a puzzle
- no need to worry about a certain number of failures costing your party a stamp
- no need to worry about DM consistency as far as treasure is concerned (of course, we will try very hard to make sure DMs are consistently excellent)
- good for new players who would get discouraged by getting only one stamp (or none)
- removes question of whether you get a stamp for just surviving room 7 if you don't defeat the boss monster.

it hurts my artifact..so yea i dont like it..i didnt like the change in HoP last year because it hurt it too...


Sorry about that, Lazlo.


It doesn't make it any weaker than it was. It's just a little weaker in comparison to other players. Maybe your artifact should morph a little bit to compensate.

And in as much as it leads to a little loot inflation, it does make treasure a little less valuable, so it hurts everyone with greed builds a little bit. But not too much.

And if it shuts down some bad feelings and some bad press while allowing a little more flexibility and fun, it's probably a net good thing.

I also like the idea of a video per room. That'll be great for DM training, because reading is hard :)

"Ceci n'est pas une pipe" - Magritte

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Re: New Newsletter 8 years 9 months ago #19

MasterED wrote: I think you are right - we are now paying for an experience rather than a game. I understand why the change but I think it brings its own negatives.

Disbeeleaf wrote: It's simply the most rational business decision.

Brad Mortensen wrote: And if it shuts down some bad feelings and some bad press while allowing a little more flexibility and fun, it's probably a net good thing.


While it may mollify/coddle some new players who feel like they should automatically get the trophy (maybe they should get Survivor pins automatically as well?), it has the effect of devaluing tokens as well.

Not just in terms of increasing the number of treasure pulls, but since there are fewer and fewer benefits to playing higher difficulty levels or gearing up, one must ask what the actual point of tokens is?


1. Survival tokens were changed to participation tokens several years ago. (The only current difference is Non-Lethal/Normal gets the Uncommon, Hardcore gets the Rare, and Nightmare gets both).

2. XP is identical for Hardcore and Nightmare difficulty. And since 2013, XP is on the honor system meaning anyone can claim they get max XP even if they died in room 1 on Normal.

3. Now treasure pulls are the same regardless of difficulty level and regardless of success/failure.

At this point, the only real difference is getting an extra participation token at Nightmare, and the Survival pin.

On the one side, maybe more players will do Nightmare since they get an extra token and other than a lower chance of getting a pin (many players don't care about pins), they will get the same treasure and XP even if they get slaughtered in room 1. So the question is whether an extra completion token is worth more than a pin.

But since player success doesn't really matter any more, what is the real purpose of tokens? They let you survive at a higher difficulty level but as mentioned, the benefits of higher difficulty levels or of survival are minimal.

And nowadays, if you want a "challenge" you can just do Hardcore/Nightmare with starter packs or with Greens or lower, etc. If you just want a challenge, why shell out hundreds or thousands of dollars when you can get a similar thrill/challenge on the cheap?

In the past few years we have already seen a good number of players liquidate their UR's because they are happy just using Rares. This decision will accelerate this trend.

The long-term impact I see is that this decision is significantly de-emphasizing the utility of tokens. :(

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Last edit: by Incognito.

Re: New Newsletter 8 years 9 months ago #20

Generally, I think the changes are all good. I think losing the Treasure Stamp incentive really isn't a big deal and this is a good way to just eliminate unnecessary complications.

I think the most important part will be whether players pay attention to the communication around their behavior when solving puzzles. Getting the treasure is fine, but I still want the experience of the group trying to figure out a puzzle and not someone who already solved it giving the answer away. Now that treasure is no longer an issue, I'd almost rather fail and take the push damage than be handed the answer.

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Re: New Newsletter 8 years 9 months ago #21

MasterED wrote:

Pstyle wrote: I got the email. I dont know how i feel about it. I recommrnded one treasure chip minimum if a party was not able to figure stuff out or got screwed.
But giving all 3 treasure chips? Will there be any reward feeling in the dungeon if the treasure is already obtained guaranteed? It seems great for new people, but not for the people who love fighting and solving stuff for rewards.

I think you are right - we are now paying for an experience rather than a game. I understand why the change but I think it brings its own negatives.

Ed


It's still a game, we're still actively solving each room.

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Re: New Newsletter 8 years 9 months ago #22

  • jedibcg
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Incognito wrote: The long-term impact I see is that this decision is significantly de-emphasizing the utility of tokens. :(



How so? I didn't buy tokens to get 3 extra treasure stamps. I bought tokens to conquer the dungeon. That hasn't changed. If people were buying tokens just to get the 3 extra stamps I don't think they were doing it right. Seriously you can could get 3 pulls a lot cheaper than the tokens that aided in getting them.

The choice of difficulty has always been I choice thing, I don't see it affected by 3 treasure pulls.

I am not saying I am a fan of this change, just that I don't think it is the end of the world.


EDIT: Let me put it another way. Is this going to change the difficulty you play or tokens you purchase? I can only speak for me that it is not.
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Last edit: by jedibcg.

Re: New Newsletter 8 years 9 months ago #23

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: it hurts my artifact..so yea i dont like it..i didnt like the change in HoP last year because it hurt it too...

I don't understand how it hurts. Neither change adversely affects the amount of treasure you get from your artifact .
  • 2014: Your treasure was allocated as if you got three stamps and therefore got a total of 9 chips from a HoP. Other bonuses worked normally.
  • 2015: Your treasure was allocated as if you got three stamps and therefore got a total of 9 chips from a HoP (or the HoP portion of a CoA). Other bonuses worked normally.
  • 2016: Your treasure will be allocated as if you got three stamps and therefore you'll get a total of 9 chips from a HoP. Other bonuses will work normally.
Have you looked it up in the TDb ?
Please post TDb corrections in this thread .
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Last edit: by Druegar. Reason: fixed typos

Re: New Newsletter 8 years 9 months ago #24

Druegar wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: it hurts my artifact..so yea i dont like it..i didnt like the change in HoP last year because it hurt it too...

I don't understand how it hurts. neither change adversely affects the amount of treasure you get from your artifact .
  • 2014: Your treasure was allocated as if you got three stamps and therefore got a total of 9 chips from a HoP. Other bonuses worked normally.
  • 2015: Your treasure was allocated as if you got three stamps and therefore got a total of 9 chips from a HoP (or the HoP portion of a CoA). Other bonuses worked normally.
  • 2016: Your treasure will be allocated as if you got three stamps and therefore you'll get a total of 9 chips from a HoP. Other bonuses will work normally.


Perhaps he means he could have had another power as opposed to one that now essentially does nothing. Of course, who knows what the future may hold.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir

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