TOPIC: my experience... not good

Picc wrote: if your going to give out fire resist tokens make sure you throw in token fire to resist

Sometimes the plan is grander than the current year. There are a number of tokens released in one year that didn't come into play until a year or two later.

Druegar wrote:

Picc wrote: if your going to give out fire resist tokens make sure you throw in token fire to resist

Sometimes the plan is grander than the current year. There are a number of tokens released in one year that didn't come into play until a year or two later.

And honestly I would be willing to bet you the vast majority of those tokens (especially the common ones) are long gone by then. Its fine when it comes to rares/completion tokens but we wouldn't be having this discussion if people felt their boots of lava walking, blessed silk cloaks, cowls of darkness, and gloves of climbing were doing them any good.

Next year most of the people who would actually wear those tokens will have replaced them with stuff that seems appropriate for the current year anyway. Just like how this year basically no one was wearing a hat of shade or sand storm cloak in the underdark.

And on the same note, while it might be extra difficult building encounters with years worth of tokens to consider, at the same time isn't it neat/cool/fun to have items that might have initially not seemed very useful, or haven't been used in ages, and for them to be relevant again?

Obviously I don't mean "X common makes a room or dungeon trivial", but I am a fan of rewarding players for being prepared, for taking that extra step to overcome challenges both in planning and in gear choices that might prove useful, or might end up not being as effective as they could've been.

If I take the time and money to have a wide selection of tokens, and if in the course of advertising a dungeon I get a sense that "____ and ______ might be useful", why not reward that forethought and preparation (and even risk taking, in using otherwise suboptimal gear)?

Just a general musing, obviously this topic has been hashed out and heard by the TD folks, but I also see it as a fascinating behind the scenes kind of discussion regarding the meta aspects of encounter design and token design.

Years ago I would have agreed with the complaint that why are Tokens being made to offer resistance this and resistance that if they can never be used because Jeff neutered them in the Dungeon. But, sadly, this is nothing new and has been going on for years. When I saw the Lava Walking Boots I never once thought of equipping them. I knew they wouldn't be useful for one reason or another.

Forar wrote: And on the same note, while it might be extra difficult building encounters with years worth of tokens to consider, at the same time isn't it neat/cool/fun to have items that might have initially not seemed very useful, or haven't been used in ages, and for them to be relevant again?

If that's your thing, I recommend True Grind

Raven wrote: If that's your thing, I recommend True Grind

Oh, it's definitely on the list of things to check out.

And now that I'm Level 2, I think I can do just that!

The Boots of Lava Walking were not useless - if you crossed the lava river in them, or stepped off a stone, you took half damage.

And Fire Resistance tokens did reduce damage in the salamander room. Plus, you could take a round to soak in the pool, and you would then be immune to the heat aura damage.

Raven wrote: I really hope you'll give the game another shot, because I'm optimistic that this is not what TD will be like going forward.
People like you, and many others who love the game, have taken the time to provide feedback, and that will make a difference going forward.

Thanks for listening!

We have at least three players that are going to be excited moving forward and only one that explicitly asked not to be invited back.

Everybody else, I think, is waiting to simmer down. We've had a lot of good times, so it's possible we'll be back.

MasterED wrote: Landon, may I ask what difficulty you played on?

We were on normal. We've never done any other difficulty.

Forar wrote: As for dying, from my read, it wasn't 'omg I died waaah', but 'I'm having so little fun at my favourite Gencon activity that I was relieved when I died at the end', and that's a hell of a thing to say.

Thanks, yes. That was the exactly what I was trying to express.

I've actually died twice before: once to the final room in the dragon year and once in the drow year back when tokens were still wood. The first was awesome. The second was funny because there was a puzzle in octal later and I, the resident computer science person who immediately got the puzzle, was dead.

So dying is totally fine. Even being effectively impossible (like the dragon) is fine.

But the difficulty in Sable Gauntlet wasn't the "oh god, oh god, we're all dying" variety. It was the "blah, I'm not sure why we're bothering" variety. Less fighting something that can kill you in a round, more being slowly whittled down by stuff you have little control over.

Cheers!
Kinak

bpsymington wrote: Plus, you could take a round to soak in the pool, and you would then be immune to the heat aura damage.

I was wondering what the pool was for!!

I tried to investigate the pool, but the DM just said "It's what it looks like: a pool of water."
Then I spent a round & trying to splash some on the creature, and the DM said it evaporated/did nothing. So I ignored it as decoration and continued attacking with melee.

Kinda wish there had been some indication that it "felt cooling on the skin" or "your blisters seem to diminish after dipping your hands in the water."

If I may ask, Did many groups figure out the trick with the pool? Was there some sort of Bardic Lore clue?

Ro-gan wrote: Years ago I would have agreed with the complaint that why are Tokens being made to offer resistance this and resistance that if they can never be used because Jeff neutered them in the Dungeon. But, sadly, this is nothing new and has been going on for years. When I saw the Lava Walking Boots I never once thought of equipping them. I knew they wouldn't be useful for one reason or another.

This is a major reason why my token purchases went from over $1,000 two years ago, to only $100 this year, to zilch from here on out.

Raven wrote:

bpsymington wrote: Plus, you could take a round to soak in the pool, and you would then be immune to the heat aura damage.

I was wondering what the pool was for!!

I tried to investigate the pool, but the DM just said "It's what it looks like: a pool of water."
Then I spent a round & trying to splash some on the creature, and the DM said it evaporated/did nothing. So I ignored it as decoration and continued attacking with melee.

Kinda wish there had been some indication that it "felt cooling on the skin" or "your blisters seem to diminish after dipping your hands in the water."

If I may ask, Did many groups figure out the trick with the pool? Was there some sort of Bardic Lore clue?

Bard lore says "some adventurers soak themselves in water before attacking a salamander to negate the heat damage from its body."

Fire resistance did reduce/prevent heat aura damage. Soaking yourself in the spring would prevent heat aura damage, but not the fire damage from the attack - the weapon did both piercing and fire damage. Fire resistance would affect the fire damage, not the piercing damage.

I agree - the DM should have given some kind of indication about the cooling affect of the water if you checked it. Very few groups tried that, though, instead trying to deal as much damage as possible as fast as possible (AMDAPAFAP).

Garrison wrote:

Ro-gan wrote: Years ago I would have agreed with the complaint that why are Tokens being made to offer resistance this and resistance that if they can never be used because Jeff neutered them in the Dungeon. But, sadly, this is nothing new and has been going on for years. When I saw the Lava Walking Boots I never once thought of equipping them. I knew they wouldn't be useful for one reason or another.

This is a major reason why my token purchases went from over $1,000 two years ago, to only $100 this year, to zilch from here on out.

Doesn't surprise me. And I agree with Ro-gan, I don't bother with "clever" items anymore because they are all negated and worthless anyway. And it's this kind of thing that can leave a VERY bad taste in people's mouths about TD and why some people just walk away never to return.

Stop punishing players for being clever and using the tokens you print!!