TOPIC: Why did you do more than 5 runs?

Ended up doing only 6 runs this year which was a lot for how many people I was trying to see. I've done 8 or 9 previously and had no issues, I think more so this year the density of them was a bit sporadic and led to me not having ample time to sleep appropriately or hang out with a variety of friend groups. I like it better when I have a few runs back to back on a day or two to get the runs I want in as opposed to 2, 1, 2, 1 like I had this year. All in all was great seeing people again and I had a blast

Jim Auwaerter wrote: From the perspective of bringing new players into the game, tickets being sold via the GenCon event system are better than tickets being re-sold via the forums because there's a higher barrier of entry. While most of the folks on the forums know one another and trust one another, I could understand someone who has never done True Dungeon hesitating to hand over 50 or 100 bucks for tickets for a run. There's also the need to know to go to the forums, rather than seeing "Sold Out" on the registration page and taking it at face value.

Except newbies can (and do) find the TD Forums and some sign up for runs through it.

I place greater value on a newbie who bothers to do research and actually registers and logs in to the forum, than a newbie who doesn't do any prep work at all.

(I also place greater value on veterans who contribute to TD through volunteering and/or token purchases, but that is a separate, more controversial issue.)

Matt wrote: I had a similar experience this year regarding grind. Did a pug with a new player who really seemed to enjoy the combat. Asked if he'd like a challenge with all combat. He expressed an interest but couldn't get a ticket. I ultimately gave him my extra grind ticket and we went direct to the 1:30pm Fri grind. Come to think of that might be why Eric was slightly annoyed with me...

Everything worked out fine.

The "annoyance" was that 15 minutes past the start time (for coaching), you still hadn't shown up and had not yet responded to my voicemail or text inquiring as to whether you were coming. And so I had to go out of my way to find 2 other players to fill those apparently empty slots. So when you and your new friend showed up, I was worried about having to turn away the 2 players I just asked to join but fortunately everyone was okay with having more than 10 people in the party.

I am glad you were able to join us!

And it worked out well in the end. In fact, this anomaly actually allowed us to achieve greater than 100% attendance!

It was just an inconvenience when people don't show up (or are really late) because it causes additional, unnecessary stress. I was equally annoyed at the handful of other incidents where no shows necessitated some frantic conscription. There were at least two other situations which were even more agitating, but I won't dwell on it!

From past experience, most players do not realize that TD (or other events) only get credit for tickets that are actually turned in. So if someone buys a ticket and then doesn't show up, GenCon ends up getting to keep all of that money. If the event isn't able to find someone to fill that spot at the last minute, it is lost potential revenue.

quip wrote: I didn't even know for certain if I would even do a solo run, until after experiencing the dungeons and thinking about each room, and what character type and build until 3:45am Saturday morning. Perhaps the caveat being, the torchbearers become the party if the crazy person solo adventurer chooses to pass on solo?

I would say:

First let the solo player try to solo the combat (or puzzle).

And if he fails (or completes it), let the rest of the party have some fun with it. They can do a mock battle with the monster, or, if a physical puzzle, try to do it themselves.

This would also be a weird concept to achieve through the wait line.

You would think so, but some newbie players see TD as more of a haunted house experience, so getting the experience at a reduced cost would be beneficial for them.

Regarding 5 person runs, I fail to see how 2 of those runs is any less "wasteful" than one three person or one solo run?

A single solo run wastes 9 slots.
A single 5 person run wastes 5 slots.
Two 5 person runs wastes 10 slots. That is worse in terms of # of slots.

However, there is also an additional dimension. An 8 person party has a better claim at wanting more space ("10 is too crowded"). That argument is weaker with 5 people. And is disingenuous with one person.

So I would also say that:

Forty-five 8-person runs (90 wasted slots) is better than eighteen 5-person runs (90 wasted slots) which is better than ten solo runs (90 wasted slots).

Incognito wrote:

Jim Auwaerter wrote: From the perspective of bringing new players into the game, tickets being sold via the GenCon event system are better than tickets being re-sold via the forums because there's a higher barrier of entry. While most of the folks on the forums know one another and trust one another, I could understand someone who has never done True Dungeon hesitating to hand over 50 or 100 bucks for tickets for a run. There's also the need to know to go to the forums, rather than seeing "Sold Out" on the registration page and taking it at face value.

Except newbies can (and do) find the TD Forums and some sign up for runs through it.

I place greater value on a newbie who bothers to do research and actually registers and logs in to the forum, than a newbie who doesn't do any prep work at all.

(I also place greater value on veterans who contribute to TD through volunteering and/or token purchases, but that is a separate, more controversial issue.)

I never claimed that new people couldn't or don't come to the forums. But for literally every other game at GenCon that I can think of, if all the sessions are sold out on the GenCon website, the only way to try to get into the event is going to muster with generics. The alternative method being advocated is something that is at best a gray area for GenCon. You can buy tickets for your friends, but buying tickets and reselling them, even for cost, opens up the possibility that some less scrupulous people could start speculating and ticket scalping.

Just today, I've seen anecdotes of forum regulars reaching out to new people and bringing them in, and helping them have a good time. That's great and should be encouraged. I'd like to see the new players be able to get in on their own as well, and not rely on luck or the kindness of strangers. They'll need that in the Dungeon.

And those newbies that end up better prepared I bet have a more enjoyable time, but I cannot prove it.

My final comment about this is. I think I have the tokens now (or could get them) to solo a dungeon. I understand it is can be an Everest, but that does not interest me. I though would not want to take that from those that do. I really enjoy playing TD with my friends. I like that someone of my friends are planning their own runs with their friends now, or want to know if there brother or significant other can join in next year.

As my TD group grows (and my desire to buy more than 40 tickets doesn't) that does mean some of my group will have to do less runs so new people get to do some. I haven't yet hit the point with my limited number that is an issue. Those that more tickets than I can give them have started their own runs.

I do more than 5 runs because:

a) I have a lot of friends I like to play with. They've all got their own Con schedules, and trying to coordinate with them means I play with some of them on this run, a bunch of them on that run, slip in a late-night with another crew, and grab another couple runs at a different time just so I can hang out with all of them.

b) I like to succeed at Nightmare level on each side of the dungeon. Sometimes I don't succeed on my first try, so I need to make sure I've got a back-up run (or two, or three.)

c) I like the Completion tokens. Treasure is cool & all, but I really like collecting Completion tokens, so I'll run on Nightmare to get both the UC & Rare at the same time, and I'll do DoubleDown runs to get extra Completion tokens, too.


Regarding 5-man runs...
I used to do 10-12 runs per year. Not only did that significantly cut into the time I could spare for volunteering, but it meant that I was really tired by the end, and more likely to be that experienced vet who kinda coasted through because I'd done it too often. It wasn't very fun.

When I realized I could get the exact same amount of treasure/completion tokens by wearing 2 wristbands, I cut waaaay back on my runs! Now I do only 8 runs, and make sure that 2 or 3 of those are DoubleDown. I don't actually buy fewer tickets (in other words, they aren't "wasted") but I have more fun, find the dungeon more challenging, and have more time left over to enjoy the Con.

I gotta end up on a run with you sometime. Have heard they are memorable.

persolo wrote: I gotta end up on a run with you sometime. Have heard they are memorable.

Thanks Persolo. Maybe 2016 will be the year!

When I realized I could get the exact same amount of treasure/completion tokens by wearing 2 wristbands, I cut waaaay back on my runs! Now I do only 8 runs, and make sure that 2 or 3 of those are DoubleDown.

Wait. So how does that work. officially? I'm hoping to book a pair of 10 slots next year .. and if people don't show .. could be in the situaion where I'm 1 or 2 down.

Is there an official post on 'ghosting'?

Incognito wrote:

Matt wrote: I had a similar experience this year regarding grind. Did a pug with a new player who really seemed to enjoy the combat. Asked if he'd like a challenge with all combat. He expressed an interest but couldn't get a ticket. I ultimately gave him my extra grind ticket and we went direct to the 1:30pm Fri grind. Come to think of that might be why Eric was slightly annoyed with me...

Everything worked out fine.

The "annoyance" was that 15 minutes past the start time (for coaching), you still hadn't shown up and had not yet responded to my voicemail or text inquiring as to whether you were coming. And so I had to go out of my way to find 2 other players to fill those apparently empty slots. So when you and your new friend showed up, I was worried about having to turn away the 2 players I just asked to join but fortunately everyone was okay with having more than 10 people in the party.

I am glad you were able to join us!

And it worked out well in the end. In fact, this anomaly actually allowed us to achieve greater than 100% attendance!

It was just an inconvenience when people don't show up (or are really late) because it causes additional, unnecessary stress. I was equally annoyed at the handful of other incidents where no shows necessitated some frantic conscription. There were at least two other situations which were even more agitating, but I won't dwell on it!

From past experience, most players do not realize that TD (or other events) only get credit for tickets that are actually turned in. So if someone buys a ticket and then doesn't show up, GenCon ends up getting to keep all of that money. If the event isn't able to find someone to fill that spot at the last minute, it is lost potential revenue.

Honestly thought i was covered when I told/asked Raven if it was okay being 10min late as i was able to waitlist into an immediate run and got the okay. I now have your # so if you call I know to answer in the future. I learned my lesson and got to steam bake the party by not realizing that casting fireball under water was a bad thing.

Incognito wrote: <snip>some newbie players see TD as more of a haunted house experience, so getting the experience at a reduced cost would be beneficial for them.

However, there is also an additional dimension. An 8 person party has a better claim at wanting more space ("10 is too crowded"). That argument is weaker with 5 people. And is disingenuous with one person.

Has anyone made any claim of wanting more space with double down or fewer number of people? I have heard that for 7 (the original number in the party from the early days) or 8 person runs. Certainly I make no claim of wanting extra room for wanting to do a solo run. It was the challenge, wanting to be the third to do it, and establishing other firsts. Pure and simple.

I think Raven made a good point in that she purchased the same number of tickets, but had more fun, had more time to do other things she enjoyed, and was less likely to be "the rude" veteran (although I have a hard time imagining Raven in that role, since she has enhanced the fun of anyone who has met her in TD).

I have cut back on runs over the last few years, since I enjoy running the token trader as well.

I could go on, but I'll leave my last comment at:
Perhaps anyone who has extra spots in a run should consider offering them up at least for spectators for those who haven't been able to get a run.