TOPIC: True Grind Post-Mortem (2015 Who's Yer Con)

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

balthasar wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

balthasar wrote: You could also argue the Bard singing could distract the Wizard from his spell casting.

No more so than the person in hand to hand combat frantically swinging a sword.

I can swing my sword to the music fairly easy. Trying to recite the audible component of a spell with a jaunty tune in your ear may throw you off. Maybe we just need a new type of instrument that can help with spell bonuses?

I have a few problems with that thought.

1- Widseth's Lute - Do we really want to tell Bard's *again* that they can either attack or buff the party?

2- UR token that only affects spellcasting - Does it take a slot? Is it useful for any class other than Wizard? Should Bards be required to have it? Do we REALLY need ANOTHER required UR token for this effect to be put into play?

Seems like with the character redesign you could EASILY say that Bardsong affects + to hit and + damage without specifying WEAPON damage.

All this will soon be solved with the new Bard Legendary - 3 Piece BAND!
This amazing legendary allows the bard to sing, fight, lore and spell cast all at the same time. This slotless item floats along inspiring all with everything they do.

valetutto wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

balthasar wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

balthasar wrote: You could also argue the Bard singing could distract the Wizard from his spell casting.

No more so than the person in hand to hand combat frantically swinging a sword.

I can swing my sword to the music fairly easy. Trying to recite the audible component of a spell with a jaunty tune in your ear may throw you off. Maybe we just need a new type of instrument that can help with spell bonuses?

I have a few problems with that thought.

1- Widseth's Lute - Do we really want to tell Bard's *again* that they can either attack or buff the party?

2- UR token that only affects spellcasting - Does it take a slot? Is it useful for any class other than Wizard? Should Bards be required to have it? Do we REALLY need ANOTHER required UR token for this effect to be put into play?

Seems like with the character redesign you could EASILY say that Bardsong affects + to hit and + damage without specifying WEAPON damage.

All this will soon be solved with the new Bard Legendary - 3 Piece BAND!
This amazing legendary allows the bard to sing, fight, lore and spell cast all at the same time. This slotless item floats along inspiring all with everything they do.

And there was much rejoicing.

valetutto wrote: All this will soon be solved with the new Bard Legendary - 3 Piece BAND!
This amazing legendary allows the bard to sing, fight, lore and spell cast all at the same time. This slotless item floats along inspiring all with everything they do.

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valetutto wrote: All this will soon be solved with the new Bard Legendary - 3 Piece BAND!
This amazing legendary allows the bard to sing, fight, lore and spell cast all at the same time. This slotless item floats along inspiring all with everything they do.

Sounds like a winner to me for 2016!
Although, I think it would be more in the relic range, akin to charm of heroism or charm of avarice.

quip wrote:

valetutto wrote: All this will soon be solved with the new Bard Legendary - 3 Piece BAND!
This amazing legendary allows the bard to sing, fight, lore and spell cast all at the same time. This slotless item floats along inspiring all with everything they do.

Sounds like a winner to me for 2016!
Although, I think it would be more in the relic range, akin to charm of heroism or charm of avarice.

I don't know, I think it is a Legendary if it lets you do all of those in the same round (e.g. in one combat round the Bard could sing, slide, lore check, and cast a spell).

Kirk Bauer wrote:

quip wrote:

valetutto wrote: All this will soon be solved with the new Bard Legendary - 3 Piece BAND!
This amazing legendary allows the bard to sing, fight, lore and spell cast all at the same time. This slotless item floats along inspiring all with everything they do.

Sounds like a winner to me for 2016!
Although, I think it would be more in the relic range, akin to charm of heroism or charm of avarice.

I don't know, I think it is a Legendary if it lets you do all of those in the same round (e.g. in one combat round the Bard could sing, slide, lore check, and cast a spell).

Hmm, true. I had the preconceived notion of only one action that other characters do per round stuck in my head. On the other hand, the bard's spells don't always come into play in combat. If it was cast a spell or use a scroll, that would be legendary level.

Its all certainly down the rabbit hole we need to go. We should debate about what inspiration bonus it would apply, but we can hold off on all that until the next great token debate.

valetutto wrote: Its all certainly down the rabbit hole we need to go. We should debate about what inspiration bonus it would apply, but we can hold off on all that until the next great token debate.

I have to admit I never really thought about it before your post but a Legendary instrument makes a lot of sense to me, and this is a great idea for one, although probably a bit overpowered.

How about: May sing while doing combat, and once per room do a lore check as a free action, and once per room cast a spell as a free action (on different rounds).

To craft it requires Widseth's Lute, the Blessed Bodhran, and the Lyre of Lore, among others.

I thought about that but I'd like to avoid the free action problem. I'd prefer it just be as part of the bard song ability.

Better wording would be - as part of the bard song may choose one of the following: fight, spell cast, or lore check.

Ideally it would allow for all of them because honestly, at the power level of Relic and higher the bard spells are fairly weak with the exception of maybe 3 spells. Lore check is sometimes nice but often not.

If they reprinted the bodhran, the widseth's would still be choosable so that would be easy enough to accommodate.

At the very least this token would have to be better than just switching the existing instruments around, which you can already do as a free action. That's the main reason why I think it could warrant doing all the 'modes' at the same time.

valetutto wrote: I thought about that but I'd like to avoid the free action problem. I'd prefer it just be as part of the bard song ability.

Better wording would be - as part of the bard song may choose one of the following: fight, spell cast, or lore check.

Ideally it would allow for all of them because honestly, at the power level of Relic and higher the bard spells are fairly weak with the exception of maybe 3 spells. Lore check is sometimes nice but often not.

If they reprinted the bodhran, the widseth's would still be choosable so that would be easy enough to accommodate.

At the very least this token would have to be better than just switching the existing instruments around, which you can already do as a free action. That's the main reason why I think it could warrant doing all the 'modes' at the same time.

... good luck on that one

I can tell you right now you will get backlash from Combat DMs
"So the Bard is doing Bardsong, sliding, casting a spell and doing a lore check in one round? When exactly am I supposed to work with the rest of the room?"

I could see "Your Bardsong gives +2 damage and your choice of: Cast a spell, attack, make a lore check" You may choose each combat round

valetutto wrote: Better wording would be - as part of the bard song may choose one of the following: fight, spell cast, or lore check.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I could see "Your Bardsong gives +2 damage and your choice of: Cast a spell, attack, make a lore check" You may choose each combat round

I think you two are agreeing.

Fiddy wrote:

valetutto wrote: Better wording would be - as part of the bard song may choose one of the following: fight, spell cast, or lore check.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I could see "Your Bardsong gives +2 damage and your choice of: Cast a spell, attack, make a lore check" You may choose each combat round

I think you two are agreeing.

Yes on that option, however I think the Legendary should be just that, legendary. The above option can already be done with a Free Action each round to switch. It would be a good Relic power. To do all of them would be a good legendary power.

As for the DM, to be honest its not that much more time, apart from the Lore Check, which could already happen.

Combat would go like this,
Bard rolls initive, DM Rolls. Bard says 'lore check' DM gives info.
Bard goes to slide with the crew or stands with the spell casters to cast then move to the other option. Then says 'don't forget to add in bard song bonus'. Yes the bard would be the last to slide or cast but that's not biggy. Yes you'd have to be efficient to not waste time but that is always the case.