TOPIC: True Grind Post-Mortem (2015 Who's Yer Con)

Incognito wrote: The lava separating the two sides could be crossed if you swam across (causing significant fire damage).

Wat? Significant like 15, or significant like 10,000?

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Incognito wrote: The lava separating the two sides could be crossed if you swam across (causing significant fire damage).

Wat? Significant like 15, or significant like 10,000?

Well, you needed to try it to see!

Incognito wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Incognito wrote: The lava separating the two sides could be crossed if you swam across (causing significant fire damage).

Wat? Significant like 15, or significant like 10,000?

Well, you needed to try it to see!

This could be a good use of gear too... Tie the chain around my waist, I'm going to swim for it... If I don't make it please pull me back and cram one of these Mystic Mushrooms in my mouth and we'll try something else.

Let's send the Monk - his card said something about having a Diamond Body - lava can't hurt a Diamond. Also, since he has no armor there is nothing to burn up if it doesn't work.

Incognito wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I assume you understand my point was that bardsong has NO EFFECT on spellcasting right?

Sounds like (sorry for the pun) you are just using the wrong types of instruments!

Spellcasters can still benefit from bardsong with:

- Lyre of Lore (may reveal immunities and weaknesses that help wizards figure out which energy types to use)

- Lyre of Luck (+1 to saves)

- Lute of Muting (-2 sonic damage)

Pretty sure you know I was referring to the lack of spell damage bonus available in any form of bardsong currently available. Seems a little unbalanced that Bardsong affects everyone but the spellcasters.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I assume you understand my point was that bardsong has NO EFFECT on spellcasting right?

Sounds like (sorry for the pun) you are just using the wrong types of instruments!

Spellcasters can still benefit from bardsong with:

- Lyre of Lore (may reveal immunities and weaknesses that help wizards figure out which energy types to use)

- Lyre of Luck (+1 to saves)

- Lute of Muting (-2 sonic damage)

Pretty sure you know I was referring to the lack of spell damage bonus available in any form of bardsong currently available. Seems a little unbalanced that Bardsong affects everyone but the spellcasters.

No, I did not know you were specifically referring to spell damage bonus. (So you were incorrect in assuming that I knew what you were referring to).

Based on your definition, Bardsong also does not help:

- The Bard when just using bardsong or when using monster lore
- The Rogue when flanking
- Any players using scrolls or wands or other tokens (including the Horn of Blasting)
- A lot of other characters when using their special abilities (Clerical turning, Paladin touching or removing disease).

All great reasons why we should improve the bard song power. It should help everyone all the time.

I'm in agreement with the other opinions: nightmare was good, psychic powers are underwhelming. I had been hoping for more of something that would let us fight monsters psionically. But, then, two of my favorite AD&D characters were psionics.

I use the iPhone app for character builds. Wonderful, wonderful program.
Advantages:
It's always with me - usable wherever
Nothing else to lug around - hallelujah!
Extremely fast and easy to use - clone feature lets you create many builds fast
I was able to whip up a fully equipped barbarian for a newbie at WYC in less than 2 minutes.
The spreadsheet is awesome, but by its nature, I prefer the app:
The spreadsheet needs an extra piece of equipment with enough computing power
To have the whole party card on one spreadsheet, the spreadsheet needs to be sent around to others, or one person has to do an onerous amount of work.
The bonus of calculating synergies can be replicated by simple raising of the hand, or documentation on the party card. e.g. - "raise your hand if you have a charm of synergy equipped?", "ok, who has a charm of awareness?", etc.

valetutto wrote: All great reasons why we should improve the bard song power. It should help everyone all the time.

Except the monsters.

Re: Everyone all the time:
"10% off in the dealer hall".
"Require 4 hrs less sleep per night."
"Return 1 treasure pull for another chance."
"Lines dissipate wherever you want to eat when you are hungry."
"Morning ablutions take 5 min total (without skipping any ), and no one has to wait to use the bathroom."
"You are teleported to TD from your hotel room."
"Your non-weapon tokens are nearly weightless."

Incognito wrote:
- I managed to kill each Artifact owner. Lazlo failed a save against a triple blast fireball (dying but then getting brought back to life). Gertz's entire party was wiped out. And kurtreznor got sliced and diced by the final boss.

Smakdown didn't do a grind run?

quip wrote:

Incognito wrote:
- I managed to kill each Artifact owner. Lazlo failed a save against a triple blast fireball (dying but then getting brought back to life). Gertz's entire party was wiped out. And kurtreznor got sliced and diced by the final boss.

Smakdown didn't do a grind run?

No, he didn't.

I spoke with him on the Thursday of WYC. He mentioned that his group had a bad experience with Grind the last time they did it (which was in 2010). Mind you, 2010 was the first year I took over Grind and that year I had 3 random assistant DM's who "could have been a lot, lot better." In fact, it was that stressful and frustrating experience that caused me to take a direct hand in DM'ing Grind myself ever since (from 2011 onwards). So yeah, I can totally understand that 2010 Grind might not have been the best experience for everyone. A shame that Team Smakdown hasn't done much Grind since then....

Incognito wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I assume you understand my point was that bardsong has NO EFFECT on spellcasting right?

Sounds like (sorry for the pun) you are just using the wrong types of instruments!

Spellcasters can still benefit from bardsong with:

- Lyre of Lore (may reveal immunities and weaknesses that help wizards figure out which energy types to use)

- Lyre of Luck (+1 to saves)

- Lute of Muting (-2 sonic damage)

Pretty sure you know I was referring to the lack of spell damage bonus available in any form of bardsong currently available. Seems a little unbalanced that Bardsong affects everyone but the spellcasters.

No, I did not know you were specifically referring to spell damage bonus. (So you were incorrect in assuming that I knew what you were referring to).

Based on your definition, Bardsong also does not help:

- The Bard when just using bardsong or when using monster lore
- The Rogue when flanking
- Any players using scrolls or wands or other tokens (including the Horn of Blasting)
- A lot of other characters when using their special abilities (Clerical turning, Paladin touching or removing disease).

Little pedantic.

The Rogue is not using flanking as his main form of combat in the dungeon.
Players burning scrolls and wands are one off effects.
Non-core attack class abilities are not main form of combat in the dungeon.

Spellcasting is the main form of damage being provided by the Wizard. Seems unfair to have an entire subset of combat that is denied a bonus that all other combat characters are getting. I can't speak from a non spellcaster perspective but I've had other combat DMs agree with me that spells should benefit from bardsong.

It's one of a long list of inconsistencies between weapon slide based combat and memorization spell based combat. One of my personal pet peeves is all.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Spellcasting is the main form of damage being provided by the Wizard. Seems unfair to have an entire subset of combat that is denied a bonus that all other combat characters are getting. I can't speak from a non spellcaster perspective but I've had other combat DMs agree with me that spells should benefit from bardsong.

It's one of a long list of inconsistencies between weapon slide based combat and memorization spell based combat. One of my personal pet peeves is all.

I remember the "good old days" when spell slides did not benefit from bonuses to hit like DEX....