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TOPIC: Propsal: Hellish Difficulty XP and Treasure

Re: Propsal: Hellish Difficulty XP and Treasure 5 years 2 months ago #73

I think the 'analysis' that claims upping Nightmare rewards over Hardcore or NIghtmare+ over Nightmare would diminish token buying is self-serving horseshit. We all know it's self-serving horseshit and we should recognize it for what it is.

I don't particularly want to see a Nightmare+ with more XP and more rewards because I know I can't field anything close to a group that could regularly survive such a thing as is. The fact remains that one of the few means to drive token sales IS a higher difficulty with the prizes and glory that matches. Anyone who tells you differently is full of shit. We might not like that, those of us who may not wish to keep spending thousands and thousands of dollars a year on tokens, but it's the truth. If anything, what TD should fear is people realizing tokens aren't necessary for the event and buyers bailing because of it. Many have already dropped back into hardcore compared to nightmare because they've made that calculation. Why should they spend that extra 1k a year on tokens when they get the same XP and practically the same reward as Nightmare? Well the same argument will easily be made if we ever have a Nightmare+. You want to keep sales spinning, you have to create that incentive for people to buy. It's simple fact and it melds into TD's bigger buyer strategy perfectly.

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Re: Propsal: Hellish Difficulty XP and Treasure 5 years 2 months ago #74

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I could see a proposed new difficulty giving bonus chips without to much problem, or even completion tokens from both dungeons, as long as players on lesser difficulties have a path to get all the same stuff (if all be it in a slower way).

That said I do find it a contradictory that people wanting the ultimate challange also want to have it without risk but thats just human nature I suppose.

(Still don't think another difficulty is a great idea.)
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Last edit: by Picc.

Re: Propsal: Hellish Difficulty XP and Treasure 5 years 2 months ago #75

I think the change of the HoP to a flat 6 tokens changes the whole equation of risk in the Dungeon. Even if you figure a group on Nightmare might miss two more stamps than a group on Hardcore, instead of a difference of 6 treasure coins that is now a risk of only a couple of treasure coins. And since the completion tokens have changed to participation tokens, players on Nightmare are guaranteed to get two participation tokens instead of the one on Normal or Hardcore. So, there really isn't any risk of fewer rewards on Nightmare anymore, in reality players on Nightmare are pretty much assured of getting as much goodies or more than on a lower level, since the extra participation token probably more than outweighs the one or two treasure coins they might miss.

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Re: Propsal: Hellish Difficulty XP and Treasure 5 years 2 months ago #76

henwy wrote: I think the 'analysis' that claims upping Nightmare rewards over Hardcore or NIghtmare+ over Nightmare would diminish token buying is self-serving horseshit. We all know it's self-serving horseshit and we should recognize it for what it is.


I'm not saying extra rewards for difficult levels would diminish token buying.
I'm saying it:
* Increases complexity for Coaches
* Increases complexity for DMs
* Increases complexity for Epilogue Staff
* Increases difficulty designing dungeons/encounters which scale to party's abilities
* Increases likelihood of people trying to play above their ability, leading to frustration
* May lead to people buying more slots to increase odds of getting full XP (this is nowhere near the problem is was when tickets were scarce. And could be good or bad.)

So if there's going to be rewards (like multiple completion tokens, or extra treasure) it's going to work better if those same rewards are available via other routes as well. Like Picc said, "as long as players on lesser difficulties have a path to get all the same stuff (if all be it in a slower way)." ... or a crass way of looking at it, "If they can't afford Relic and Legendaries to compete at higher levels, let them pay extra cash for extra runs, and we'll take their money that way."

If anything, what TD should fear is people realizing tokens aren't necessary for the event and buyers bailing because of it.


I don't fear that. I fear TD's loyal volunteers getting burnt out (by the added complexity, information overload, angry players arguing about treasure/difficulty, etc.) and either quitting, or providing a sub-par dungeon experience.

People invest in tokens because they like to play TD. If the game itself starts to suck, that's going to lose more players (and more token buyers) than mere power creep.
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Re: Propsal: Hellish Difficulty XP and Treasure 5 years 2 months ago #77

Mike Steele wrote: If Nightmare were made a higher XP than Hardcore...which could lead to a number of the more dedicated players (and probably token buyers) dropping out and/or spending less on tokens.

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Re: Propsal: Hellish Difficulty XP and Treasure 5 years 2 months ago #78

henwy wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: If Nightmare were made a higher XP than Hardcore...which could lead to a number of the more dedicated players (and probably token buyers) dropping out and/or spending less on tokens.


If you are going to quote me, at least have the integrity of quoting the entire post. The "..." that you selectively chose to leave out was pretty important to making the point. Which I stand by.

The complete post was: "I'd add that to a fairly substantial portion of the dedicated players, XP is pretty important. If Nightmare were made a higher XP than Hardcore, and a difficulty level above Nightmare were even higher than that, many of these players would choose to play at the highest difficulty level to get the max XP, even though otherwise that would not be their difficulty level of choice. And they would likely not enjoy the experience, which could lead to a number of the more dedicated players (and probably token buyers) dropping out and/or spending less on tokens. I think True Dungeon wisely chose to not create higher XP incentives which would have a number of players having a much less enjoyable experience than they would otherwise have."

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Last edit: by Mike Steele.

Re: Propsal: Hellish Difficulty XP and Treasure 5 years 2 months ago #79

henwy wrote: I think the 'analysis' that claims upping Nightmare rewards over Hardcore or NIghtmare+ over Nightmare would diminish token buying is self-serving horseshit. We all know it's self-serving horseshit and we should recognize it for what it is.


Sorry I disagree. It serves me nothing to believe there shouldn't be greater rewards. I am going to play at the level I feel my party will enjoy the most regardless of the rewards associated with that level. I believe (maybe I am mistaken) Raven has advocated no additional rewards for a higher level. Raven is someone that could play at the highest level if she choose to I believe. What is she gaining by suggesting there shouldn't be additional rewards if it would in fact reward herself?
You either discover a star or you don't. You arrogant punk.

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Last edit: by jedibcg.

Re: Propsal: Hellish Difficulty XP and Treasure 5 years 2 months ago #80

Raven wrote: I don't fear that. I fear TD's loyal volunteers getting burnt out (by the added complexity, information overload, angry players arguing about treasure/difficulty, etc.) and either quitting, or providing a sub-par dungeon experience.

People invest in tokens because they like to play TD. If the game itself starts to suck, that's going to lose more players (and more token buyers) than mere power creep.


This is exactly it.

You wanna know what was the biggest impact to me this year? What made me the most upset and pushed me towards walking away?

Zephyr, Room 6 Puzzle, failing twice, both times due to what I suspect was mechanical failure. Hearing that success was about 20% all day. AND THE DM DID NOT KNOW THE SOLUTION.

That room was crap, that puzzle was good but the implementation was crap and it pretty much ruined the fun of the run.

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Re: Propsal: Hellish Difficulty XP and Treasure 5 years 2 months ago #81

Kaledor wrote: (they really hated monster bits this year)

Would you mind elaborating on that please?
Have you looked it up in the TDb ?
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Re: Propsal: Hellish Difficulty XP and Treasure 5 years 2 months ago #82

Druegar wrote:

Kaledor wrote: (they really hated monster bits this year)

Would you mind elaborating on that please?


I hated the scarcity of monster bits. Out of 40ish tokens for 3 runs I only got 6 monster bits.
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Last edit: by George .

Re: Propsal: Hellish Difficulty XP and Treasure 5 years 2 months ago #83

George wrote:

Druegar wrote:

Kaledor wrote: (they really hated monster bits this year)

Would you mind elaborating on that please?


I hated the scarcity of monster bits. Out of 40ish tokens for 3 runs I only got 6 monster bits.


My group drew 91 chips and got 28 bits.

The stated percentage was 23%.

If you had 44 draws, you "should" have had 10 bits. But since there were three different boxes refilled at various times during the week, your actual chance could have been quite different.
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Last edit: by Harlax.

Re: Propsal: Hellish Difficulty XP and Treasure 5 years 2 months ago #84

henwy wrote:
I don't particularly want to see a Nightmare+ with more XP and more rewards because I know I can't field anything close to a group that could regularly survive such a thing as is.


Then run with my group, Nightmare is pretty easy... well after the first time through. :)

We have space for 2... just FYI. :)
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