TOPIC: Player Replacement Policies

True Dungeon only gets paid if they turn in tickets that we hand over to them. As I understand it, they were offering 7 starter bags for your ticket, if you weren't going to use it. If the run is paid for with generics, they turn those in to make sure they are getting compensation as well.

The only time a player can get a refund after an event is with the signature of somebody important, Hall Captain maybe, I don't remember what the official title is, or if the event is entered into the system as having been canceled. If you have a ticket that you don't turn in because your buddy didn't show and TD filled the slot with a wait list then GenCon keeps the whole cost. The generics that the wait lister used will be turned in by TD and they will get the 48$ minus whatever GenCon's cut is. I have no idea who you would need a signature from to refund your ticket that you can't use. And from the anecdotes here it seems like that is never offered as an option.

Adam Guay wrote: Good question....are unused tickets still refundable even after the run is complete...if not true dungeon is double dipping on the profit.

first off it would be Gencon
True dungeon only get paid for tickets turned in not bought..Gencon would be double dipping

i love that people keep complaining. I came up with a good, if not great solution..so did a few others(i think, i am going going back through the posts)
but people would rather be part of the problem rather than help fix an issue

so start throwing out ideas to help come to a solution..

kurtreznor wrote:
or you can go to the wait-list area and announce that you have an extra ticket for such-and-such run, but you are running HC/NM. and see if anyone is interested in joining at that level. if not, then ghost.

How would you handle getting compensated for your ticket in this instance? Would you take their generics and turn in your ticket for them or simply let them turn in the generics and take whatever compensation TD gives for unused tickets?

Also, is there an official TD policy for compensation on unused tickets? Hearing the stories of getting 6 extra token bags with ghosting I am wondering if that was a misunderstanding, where the purpose was that turning in unused tickets got you token bags, not simply ghosting.

I don't know if there is a policy but I did see unused tickets get turned into multiple (6 or 7) 10 pack tokens. I benefited from the ghost and multiple 10 packs on Sunday and thought it was a mistake and said as much. I was told it was a change. So maybe on Sunday they had a few packs left and didn't want to take them back??? I was the second to last run on Sunday Viper Combat. Not certain. I ghosted before Sunday and got watch I expected 1 10 pack and wristband for each ghost (plus treasure at the end).

Incognito wrote: Say you have all 10 tickets but only 9 people are present. You are thinking of ghosting. And there is a waitlist person available.

If the waitlist person joins, is he:

A. Giving you the $48 for your extra ticket?

OR

B. Giving TD the $48 dollar. In which case what happens to your extra ticket?


If it is scenario A, then yes you can definitely make sure that the guy is willing to play Hardcore/Nightmare before selling him your ticket.

If it is scenario B, then you are essentially getting shafted with your unused ticket, in which you should definitely ghost (unless you really need the 10th body along as a meat shield).

What has happened to me twice (once this year, and once prior) and has happened to others I spoke with this year, is Scenario B.

Except the option to ghost wasn't even presented to us either time. (I can't say whether it was presented to other folks either.) In my experience, the hostess simply filled the run from waitlist. She was working within TD's policies, which say nothing about what to do when the party has the physical tickets.

I recognize that this is not a huge problem in the general populace of TD players. Most groups don't know everyone who joins them before the run. Most groups play on Normal mode. Most groups don't stand to lose a bunch of money because they didn't buy the full slot. So we've got ourselves a bit of a "niche" problem. But it's a really significant niche problem for folks who spend hundreds of dollars on tickets every year, or who buy a full slot and populate it with intent to run HardCore or Nightmare mode.

Several options have been suggested, which may (or may not) make more work for the hostess/coach/coach assistant, etc. I'm not sure which way things will go (we're really just brainstorming right now), but I hope something changes so we don't have this happening on a regular basis.

Not trying to complain, just point out how it isn't TD that is double-dipping when tickets don't get turned in.

As far as on topic discussion I think at the very least Raven's suggestion of adding the 17 min. line to the chart should be implemented. Several of the other suggestions sound good but I don't really have the info necessary to say if they would or wouldn't work.

Cormroc wrote: The only time a player can get a refund after an event is with the signature of somebody important, Hall Captain maybe, I don't remember what the official title is, or if the event is entered into the system as having been canceled. If you have a ticket that you don't turn in because your buddy didn't show and TD filled the slot with a wait list then GenCon keeps the whole cost. The generics that the wait lister used will be turned in by TD and they will get the 48$ minus whatever GenCon's cut is. I have no idea who you would need a signature from to refund your ticket that you can't use. And from the anecdotes here it seems like that is never offered as an option.

I think GenCon handles TD tickets a bit differently.

You'd have to talk to Lori for the exact details, and she may or may not be able/willing to share them.

I know that with normal GenCon event tickets you are supposed to be able to turn in specific Event tickets for other events, as long as the value of the attended event is less than or equal.

But I don't think that works with TD. I once asked about whether people can turn in unused TD tickets (including those for missed runs) for another TD run but it didn't seem like you could.

And I have not heard of an instance where TD accepted event tickets for non-TD events, in lieu of generics or cash.

One easy solution is, show up when you said you would. I know emergencies happen, but it seems like a lot of people cut their schedules way too tight, then act like victims of the laws of physics. I've never been in this situation, but it seems like most of the blame should fall on the person who doesn't keep their commitment to the group. But they're often experts at keeping the finger pointed at someone else.

If a volunteer gets stuck past their allotted shift that's different. If someone is wandering the halls or shopping or doesn't leave their previous event in time, or goes out for dinner knowing they need twice the time they have available, that's no reason to make TD eat a ticket.

So you should either be able to turn in the extra ticket for 6 packs, OR run a ghost (but definitely not both). And if you take the packs, TD gets to fill the slot from the wait list. If the missing person has the ticket, they're out of luck, and once a wait lister is seated in the coaching room, they get to play. Make it an 11-person run or boot the late person who created the drama, but don't punish the new player who did nothing wrong.

But then I have a relative who refuses to show up on time. Ever. Sometimes she calls ahead to say she's leaving in 5 minutes and will "only" be 30 minutes late, then calls an hour later to say she's not coming at all. She's never shown up sooner than 30 minutes late, and I'm frankly sick of her passive-aggressive self- centered behavior. So I'm probably not as sympathetic to consistently-late people as others would be.

And if you had a legitimate problem making it to a run on time, I'm obviously not talking about you.

I think the main thing here has to do with how TD handles no show people.

#1 If we have 18 minutes from start time to walk into the prep room we should be normally allowed 17 minutes without a replacement assuming we verify that we know who is coming.

#2 If the missing player does not show up before we enter the training room we should be allowed to choose to ghost the player before the missing spot is filled.

#3 I would love to have the option to say "Ghosted in the event he does not show up before room 1 starts. Character already recorded." But that's a request, not a policy needed.


It's not so much the late person problem as the reported instances of people holding tickets in hand before the 18 minute mark with players en route having their tickets sold to wait list people without checking with the group in question.

Raven wrote: I recognize that this is not a huge problem in the general populace of TD players. Most groups don't know everyone who joins them before the run. Most groups play on Normal mode. Most groups don't stand to lose a bunch of money because they didn't buy the full slot. So we've got ourselves a bit of a "niche" problem. But it's a really significant niche problem for folks who spend hundreds of dollars on tickets every year, or who buy a full slot and populate it with intent to run HardCore or Nightmare mode.

For better or worse, here is an anecdotal story of something that actually happened in Grind this year. It is not indicative of any official TD policy, just what I had to improvise with given the exceptional circumstances:

After completing a Grind run, I enter the coaching room on time and am startled to see only 3 people (Henwy and two of his friends). 7 empty seats.

Henwy says he recently returned 3 tickets to the system and has 2 more tickets on hand for friends running late. He has no clue who the final 2 people are.

After talking to the group that just finished their Grind, one of them is interested in giving it another go (our 4th player).

Then a really awesome Wait List volunteer named Andrew is able to get 4 people on the Wait List to do Grind (players #5-#8).

At this point we have 8 players and then Henwy's 2 missing friends. Turns out they were planning to do a different one of Henwy's runs, not this Grind, so actually Henwy now has 2 extra tickets.

I collect generics and cash from Players #4-#8. At this point my main priority is filling the unclaimed spots. Henwy still has 2 unused tickets for the event - tough luck for now.

Now Andrew reports that there is a group of 3 interested in joining the Grind. I ask the party if they are okay with having a party of 11, and they are. When I meet the group of 3, it turns out to be a father with two very young kids.

It actually works out okay. I just have the 8 standard players fight on two boards (my normal DM boards) while I handle the family of 3 on the third board (the assistant DM board). Event ran just fine.

I guess the GenCon "Scenario B" approach would be to take Henwy's 2 extra tickets, give him some extra tokens, and then also take the money/generics from the latest three additions. So essentially we would have 13 people worth of tickets.

What I did, and what I think was the "fair" thing to do, is that after filling out the empty/unclaimed tickets first (#4 - #8), since Henwy had tickets #9 and #10, I just gave him the cash value of those tickets (essentially players 9 and 10 bought the tickets from Henwy). So we ended up with 11 people worth of tickets, and Henwy got a cash refund for his unused tickets (which he essentially sold), which is better than dealing with the restocking fee for refunding.