TOPIC: Reviews and feedback

thankfully I only lost 11.

We had a Troubadour with us the first run (thank you RO7P) or that number would have been 23 instead.

I would have been fine with the room had it NOT been a treasure room but having an overly complex time sink, broken puzzle blocking a treasure stamp is just shitty from a player perspective.

It made me want to sell my Zephyr tickets when I realized I couldn't cheat past it the second time.

I can't do much more than echo what others have already said. I only did Flight of the Zephyr (combat), and the liftonium gas puzzle just didn't function correctly for us. It's a different sort of frustration when you know what you have to do to solve a puzzle, but the puzzle itself breaks down. (The wooden planks over a stream puzzle last year was similar, where the rocks were moving as time went on).

I was also annoyed that the damage in that particular run was always physical or eldritch. I make an effort to resist a lot of damage types, and that's useless when a puzzle always does unblockable damage.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: thankfully I only lost 11.

We had a Troubadour with us the first run (thank you RO7P) or that number would have been 23 instead.

I would have been fine with the room had it NOT been a treasure room but having an overly complex time sink, broken puzzle blocking a treasure stamp is just shitty from a player perspective.

It made me want to sell my Zephyr tickets when I realized I couldn't cheat past it the second time.

Our group did that same puzzle on Friday night and it was one of the few I felt good about solving. Solid teamwork, strong leadership and a good and attentive dm got us through it. Maybe our group was just the lucky ones. Only treasure we missed was that damn wind walker. We had no wizards on that run and we slid awfully.

Harlax wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: The eggs actually triggered off magnetics NOT tapping. You can do the entire puzzle without touching a single egg.

The magnetic sensors were not in the same spot on every egg and some were too close together or too sensitive leading to the problems you saw.

Well it was a really cool puzzle. It was just frustrating to solve it on nightmare and then fail it on normal.

Did you try to solve it exactly the same way? Because the golden key egg was in a different spot between my two runs. Friday it was top right, but Sunday it was top left. So that could be the issue.

let me start with: THIS YEAR WAS GREAT!

I just wanted to lead off with that so it doesn't get lost in my post. so, I ran all 4 dungeons, 1 grind, and an additional viper puzzle on Raven's 5-person double-down run.

on Viper:
I loved the egg puzzle. though, once you know the solution, it becomes less cool...but still fun to play with the magnet/wand.

the floor puzzle was kinda meh to me. failed it the first time and had no clue (just a suspicion that all those pips must have meaning). on the double-down run, the DM told us a certain shape was glowing, and we were able to connect the dots.

alternately, the sarcophagus was amazing. and could have been a natural fit to a puzzle dungeon instead of combat (especially if turning it off was a puzzle you had to solve mid-combat).

the sand puzzle was incredible. the only downside was cleaning sand out of fingernails the rest of the dungeon.

our group did just fine in the final combat rooms. though, we did them Thursday and Friday, and I always equip with the iridescent spindle so we don't have to breathe nasty poisons.


ZEPHYR:
this dungeon was full of good teamwork puzzles (connect colors, charge ball, air blast). they had a good mix of must work together and must listen to a person in charge...at the same time. I liked all 3 of these puzzles. though, I do know that we easily could have run out of time if we didn't have someone who had already been on zephyr. having played the first few years, I tend to search rooms more cautiously than the new puzzles require. now-a-days, you gotta jump right in and start solving. I expect once jeff has us retrained to charge ahead we will start tripping traps again

I really like the cute little orb zipping around. both the puzzle and the combat against it were fun.

the wyvern combat was very interesting and I enjoyed it. though, I don't like how it seems they did the set-up for it. luckily, again, we had someone who had been before, and she made sure our ranged attackers were ready to step up to the combat boards. this should have been explained: the room intro should have been that we need 4 people to pilot the ship...but oh wait, what is that in the distance approaching, the rest of you man the battle stations. something like that to give you a chance to actually decide who should be doing what.

and now, the only real bad thing I have to say about the dungeons themselves: the switch box. this room was horrible. first, we found out that some of the lights were broken. ok, that can fit with the theme. but I could not get my first light to turn on. even after someone mentioned that every section it was a set of a single color that triggered it. I tried every combo for each color of switches. then someone else tried every combo of each color on it. we ran out of time with that being the only thing we needed. we told the DM multiple times that we thought the light was out, but she assured us it worked. we accepted that we failed as the horn sounded and asked her to do the solution, just to ensure the light hadn't burned out. she said she didn't know the solution, but said she was certain it still worked. the 5 of us standing next to her were all staring at her with incredulity. she was seriously telling us that she guarantees that the light worked, without any way to back up the claim. and worse yet, if the light was out, she had absolutely no way to tell if a group solved the puzzle. the only thing that kept us from being raving mad was that I had my wife use my 2nd Ro7P voucher to play the Troubador, so we had already gotten the treasure stamp. this became a recurring conversation the rest of the weekend: 'the DM should always know the solution to the room.'


Non-Dungeon stuff:

ok, I have to say this again...also, why the hell do I have to say this again! WE NEED LIGHT IN THE VILLAGE AREA!!!!! I don't even bother trying to do anything in the TD area any more. if I need to sort through any tokens, I go out to the convention center hallway and find a spot on the floor next to the wall. and if that really is as much light as there can be without ruining the dungeon ambiance, then use that space for something else.

the epilogue room went fairly well. I think we would all prefer to get our rewards at Gencon, and clear up the 6th level bonus token. but no serious problems on site.

However, I despise the way XP was given. I didn't even realize it was as big of an issue until Saturday; my wife's only zephyr run, we did hardcore because it was the only run for multiple people who wanted max XP. at the end, since it wasn't the nightmare button, I asked to make sure it was the hardcore XP sticker...only to find out that all the stickers were the same. you got to pick which level and room to get XP for. WHAT?!?!? that not only cheapens the XP, but makes me wish we had done it on NIGHTMARE because it wouldn't matter if someone died early. I mean, really, why not just give everyone the max XP for the year and call it done without messing with all the stickers?


ok, all that said, please refer to my first comment: THIS YEAR WAS GREAT! thank you TD for another great event. hope to see you at whosyercon in the spring.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: The viper gas room I STILL believe to be broken.

Both runs I did with that room we found one of the tubes stopped getting air after about 5 connections were made.

We got to 9 of 10 tubes in the second run with those of us who'd run before pushing directly into the puzzle.

Either the puzzle was broken or you are supposed to figure out there are tubes not in use. I don't see that happening with the design.

I don't believe that the puzzle was broken. Some of the connections you could make would dead end and you'd have to find another hole to attach to. There were at least 2 or three valid holes at each output. The trick to that one was that at least one of the connections had to go around a corner. Our group got that puzzle just in time, thanks to a lot of amazing teamwork.

True Grind
Awesome as always. I loved the twist with the cold climate rules, as it was just enough to make things interesting but not enough to be infuriating. Lots of sliding, varied combat, tricky illusion-clad rust monsters. Good times!

Viper's Pit - Friday morning - Combat
Overall, I liked this one but in ways I felt like TD hadn't learned from previous bad decisions. The blood table was awesome. The early fights and puzzles were good. The egg room was annoying, as I had the right solution (even going the right way), the person with the wand attempted the correct solution, and when we failed we assumed it was due to an incorrect solution and not buggy technology. I see a trend with too many things breaking and not having proper contingencies.

The medusa room was fine, and my mirror worked. I was the only one with a mirror, as most people were new. We had 5 people stoned, but only had 2 scrolls to fix them. I don't like save or die stuff, especially in a normal difficulty run that is not in the final room. The medusa herself did an amazing job.

For room 7, I just felt bad for the rest of the party and especially for the new players. Three rounds of area effect damage for the room with no obvious way to negate it is just lazy and uninteresing. Plus, all of those saving throw rolls really slow things down. I was able to take down the final monster, but I had to do it by myself while everyone else just had to watch. The final room just seemed so lacking in explanation and any creativity in combat. Too bad the final Viper Pit room was so determined to be a downer. Didn't we learn our lesson from the dragon?

Zepher - Saturday afternoon - Combat
I loved this run, and can say we had solid DMs all all the way through. I don't have any specific gripes for this one, except that the gas puzzle didn't seem to work right. The final room was awesome, and I was truly impressed. There was only one, somewhat inexperienced DM in that room who deserves a trophy. He handled that crazy room with enthusiasm and competence. It was a great way to end an adventure.

The new exit rooms lacked flair, but were WAY better logistically than in the past. Add a little more flavor to them to feel like a real closing of the story and they will be perfect.

Overall, this was a good year. I just hope TD can find a way to cope with technology failures better (or eliminate/minimize them) in the future, as I really do like those puzzles. My biggest thing I want to see is making final combat rooms epic without making players feel hopeless. It's one thing to lose after a valiant fight--it's another to just get killed when you enter the room and feel like there was no chance of winning. THAT will leave a bad taste.

* Oh, and I also really dislike having 2 of 3 treasure stamps be puzzles when it is a combat run. Many people do combat for a reason

Despite most of our tokens ending up lost. (Long story), I had a great time this year.

Zephyr Puzzle:
Room 1...great way to kick things off with teamwork.
Room 2...we solve this in an unexpected way according to the DM, but she follows our logic and agrees we definitely have a correct solution.
Room 3...damn elemental...we do prevail though despite a fairly noob party.
Room 4...cute ball is cute...maybe my favorite room.
Room 5...no clue how we were supposed to solve this one...we were lost
Room 6...hate wasting half the room on an adventurers trap...even the second time through knowing to hit the switch right away we couldn't solve it.
Room 7...great, but I do think letting us know we needed ranged for the combatants would have been helpful...both our mages were manning stations instead of fighting.

Vipron Puzzle:
Room 1...love it.
Room 2...only issue was the slowest DM I have ever met was running this room...thankfully only took 2 rounds to take out the snake, but that took far too long.
Room 3...really liked this one too
Room 4...DM gave us enough tiny hints that we figured it out.
Room 5...failed first time through as it took us too long to get the right size/depth in the sand
Room 6...was told using the mirror would not help in combat and got turned to stone, bard thankfully had scroll
Room 7...we nailed this as we had been tracking the placcards

Vipron Combat
Rooms 1-3 same
Room 4...had fun here, but we only had one skeleton actor
Room 5...crush it on second run through
Room 6...2 of us turned to stone, and only 1 scroll...very harsh on the noobs
Room 7...ouch...definitely felt like a hardcore run, and again, very harsh on anyone not well equipped...biggest disappointment was being told my level 5 rogue was not allowed to use my flank power on the snake, as I "couldn't get around it"

There are a couple of issues brought up in this thread that I wanted to comment on. First several people said DMs had issues calculating hits or saves. At one time on a Viper combat run the dm said my son missed on a 6 against the snake construct on Normal. We politely asked him to look again and quickly apologized [my son was a 5th level fully kitted out barbarian with a trident of skewering and a 36 strength] after that hit killed the snake we talked and he said he had briefly looked at the card and saw most were new players and trying to get the most combat in he just thought that was clearly a miss for any one other than "refugees from nightmare".

The other issue was the final viper room where the dm was trying to get through both combat rounds (priest and BIIIIG Snake) and we had to mention to him that my son and I had spindles but everyone else took lots of gas damage. Although we had let the party swing first on all other monsters the ability to damage (and nearly kill in one case) all of the party members lead to a Chant of "Kill it" and my son got lucky and critted with his trident and I slid an 18 with a very nice bow and killed him with one attack with the others damage. the DM was good to slow down and we were lucky as i think a new pary would have been wiped out

Long story short if you talk to DMs about issues and concern they will work with you. However that should be explained at the start to players so they bring up issues.

TD is great and working and talking make it better

PS I like DM that discuss their disapointment with the lack of kills on our party

Superdroid wrote: True Grind
Awesome as always. I loved the twist with the cold climate rules, as it was just enough to make things interesting but not enough to be infuriating. Lots of sliding, varied combat, tricky illusion-clad rust monsters. Good times!

Viper's Pit - Friday morning - Combat
Overall, I liked this one but in ways I felt like TD hadn't learned from previous bad decisions. The blood table was awesome. The early fights and puzzles were good. The egg room was annoying, as I had the right solution (even going the right way), the person with the wand attempted the correct solution, and when we failed we assumed it was due to an incorrect solution and not buggy technology. I see a trend with too many things breaking and not having proper contingencies.

The medusa room was fine, and my mirror worked. I was the only one with a mirror, as most people were new. We had 5 people stoned, but only had 2 scrolls to fix them. I don't like save or die stuff, especially in a normal difficulty run that is not in the final room. The medusa herself did an amazing job.

For room 7, I just felt bad for the rest of the party and especially for the new players. Three rounds of area effect damage for the room with no obvious way to negate it is just lazy and uninteresing. Plus, all of those saving throw rolls really slow things down. I was able to take down the final monster, but I had to do it by myself while everyone else just had to watch. The final room just seemed so lacking in explanation and any creativity in combat. Too bad the final Viper Pit room was so determined to be a downer. Didn't we learn our lesson from the dragon?

Zepher - Saturday afternoon - Combat
I loved this run, and can say we had solid DMs all all the way through. I don't have any specific gripes for this one, except that the gas puzzle didn't seem to work right. The final room was awesome, and I was truly impressed. There was only one, somewhat inexperienced DM in that room who deserves a trophy. He handled that crazy room with enthusiasm and competence. It was a great way to end an adventure.

The new exit rooms lacked flair, but were WAY better logistically than in the past. Add a little more flavor to them to feel like a real closing of the story and they will be perfect.

Overall, this was a good year. I just hope TD can find a way to cope with technology failures better (or eliminate/minimize them) in the future, as I really do like those puzzles. My biggest thing I want to see is making final combat rooms epic without making players feel hopeless. It's one thing to lose after a valiant fight--it's another to just get killed when you enter the room and feel like there was no chance of winning. THAT will leave a bad taste.

* Oh, and I also really dislike having 2 of 3 treasure stamps be puzzles when it is a combat run. Many people do combat for a reason

If you came through viper Friday morning then you came through my room, I was in charge of the second room Thursday, Friday and Saturday mornings.

The last viper room ruined my night. To get that far and then get back stabbed followed by auto poison damage. My bard only had 18 and when he told me the damage, I just went and sulked on the stairs while he quickly murdered everyone else. Normal runs should be achievable with entry level gear and some luck. I was wearing rares and some ultra rares, so were two of my friends and we got torn through like wet toilet paper.

I also agree about the stamps. Mostly combat for combat and mostly puzzle for puzzle.

Still an amazing year and I worked some super cool people but my Saturday night was ruined by a silly TPK on normal difficulty when we were all full health after the Medusa room and my friends were sliding good.

Disbeeleaf wrote:

Mekra wrote:

Disbeeleaf wrote:
Our Mirrors worked in both Normal and Nightmare

Thanks for the feedback.

It sounds like the dungeons were not consistent.

We played nightmare.

Originally, it was ruled the mirrors would work that you could look and interact with the Medusa. And, attack. But, later it was said the mirror wouldn't work for attacking because if you think about it in real life it's next to impossible to attack with your back to an enemy using a mirror. You would kill your friends or hurt yourself. There was talk to give the Players a huge negative modifier for using a mirror when attacking. This never went anywhere because I have no idea.

I was running my Medusa where the mirrors worked for everything if it was Non-Lethal and Normal. For HC and NM the mirror may or may not work for combat. It depends if I remembered or not and the experience/Token level of the Players. If they were sliding Relics/Legendaries? The mirror didn't work in combat situations.

If a Party or some of the Party came into my Room already with the mirror ready and up? They had to automatically save versus the Medusa. Why? There was absolutely no clue or suspicion this was a Medusa Room. Not until she started dancing behind the screen. Guess what? They had prior knowledge and were using non-Player related knowledge to take advantage of the Room. Save. You can cheat if you want. But, I catch you, Save.

I let one woman go because she explained she uses the mirror every year, every Room. She convinced me and, oddly enough, sold me a bridge. LOL!!

By Friday night, it go to the point everyone coming into my Room automatically turned their backs when the Medusa started dancing or before she started dancing behind the screen. So, Saturday morning my Medusa came up with a great idea to enter the Room a different way almost every time. It was so funny to see the "cheaters" jump when the Medusa would come in the Room in front of them when they had their backs to the Medusa's screen.

My Medusa (both that I worked with over the course of 3 days) and I were hiding Scroll Stone To Flesh Tokens throughout the Room. Heck! If the Party wasn't even searching the Room after combat and had newbies to TD turned to stone statues I would toss a Scroll Stone To Flesh on the combat board or floor and say: "someone dropped a Token."

I didn't have an infinite amount of Scrolls StF so if a Party had some turned to stone when time was up there was nothing I could do. Although, sometimes my Medusa would be told she can turn them back if they weren't suitable for her Room because of (insert reason).

My Medusa (both) and I tried so hard to make people happy. But, you can't make everyone happy and I was able to live with that.

Oh! Here's a thing I got a lot from people in combat using mirrors:

Me: "You hit the Medusa... save for me, please."

Player: <angrily> "I have a mirror."

Me: "You are using a 2-Handed weapon. You can't use a mirror and your weapon at the same time <very friendly smile from me>."

9.99/10 they totally understood.

Balran wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: The viper gas room I STILL believe to be broken.

Both runs I did with that room we found one of the tubes stopped getting air after about 5 connections were made.

We got to 9 of 10 tubes in the second run with those of us who'd run before pushing directly into the puzzle.

Either the puzzle was broken or you are supposed to figure out there are tubes not in use. I don't see that happening with the design.

I don't believe that the puzzle was broken. Some of the connections you could make would dead end and you'd have to find another hole to attach to. There were at least 2 or three valid holes at each output. The trick to that one was that at least one of the connections had to go around a corner. Our group got that puzzle just in time, thanks to a lot of amazing teamwork.

Both times i ran the puzzle 7 connections in tube 2 stopped having air when checked. It wasn't the wrong hole situation, it was the right hole suddenly not working several connections later.