TOPIC: Reviews and feedback

Doug Smidebush wrote: I loved the last Viper room, and the amazing animatronic, but we ended up winning the room right at the buzzer. What happened? Did we find the dwarves? What's up the drow -- I only saw her for a second because I was sliding, and then helping another party member with spell choices.

I ended up being a little liberal with the script, but essentially what I said as the Drow in Combat Viper was:

(to the priest - if still alive) "You . . . you caused this when you sold us those dwarves! It brought them [the party] here! Now, I will finish this!"

My action of throwing myself into the pit completes the ritual the priest was incanting when the party entered the room, causing the beloved Vipron to rise up and devour the party. At least, that was always my character's intention.

If the party killed the priest before the correct timing of the Drow's entrance, the script changed slightly, since the Vipron has already risen after the priest threw his/her dying corpse into the pit. The Drow still jumped - maybe a second sacrifice might make Vipron even stronger for the imperative death and destruction.

You might get the impression that the Drow has something going on that she'd rather you not disturb. Apparently, we all must play next year to find out.

CJ Heintz wrote:

TJRat wrote:

Joe C wrote: Did anyone pass the rope hall puzzle in Viper's Pit?

I ran this room Sunday - only one group passed. No one spelled out all the letters. A few had to 'eenie-meenie-minie-mo' between the spear and speak.

Many laid out the ropes correctly, but never looked at the pattern (a letter). They just assumed that they had to connect the dots in order, circle, triangle, etc.

My group got it after spelling out "SP". DM said we were the only group he'd heard about that didn't take any damage on the puzzle.

I really liked the puzzles in Flight of the Zephyr puzzle. I did REALLY dislike the DM from the first room (the druid chick). While doing the puzzle where you have to align the 5 generators with the 25 tiles, she informed us that no line terminates. All form a continuous line to the other side. Well, the pieces were impossible to see when not placed on top of the light. When we'd put a piece down just to get a better look at it, she'd say things like "That piece can't go there since that would terminate some lines." and my friend would kindly respond "We're just trying to get a good look at it" After about 3 or 4 times of this occurring, as politely as I could I said "You don't know what we're doing. You're a DM. Can you please quit trying to act like a party member? We have a system and we don't need you nagging us while we work through this." That solved the issue, but I couldn't believe how involved she was. Also, the clue in that room was horrible and misleading. Overall, I was VERY disappointed in the clues we got in Zephyr. The puzzles were really cool, however. And the final room was great (although I wish they'd have been clearer about the volunteers as we lost our fighter to being a volunteer when I probably would have made a much better candidate). The DMs in the final room did an amazing job, however. Kudos to them.

What was wrong with the clue? It said the first line coming off a fuel cell was a single line down the middle, and that was perfectly accurate.

Pm sent to Deaterrae

CJ Heintz wrote:

TJRat wrote:

Joe C wrote: Did anyone pass the rope hall puzzle in Viper's Pit?

I ran this room Sunday - only one group passed. No one spelled out all the letters. A few had to 'eenie-meenie-minie-mo' between the spear and speak.

Many laid out the ropes correctly, but never looked at the pattern (a letter). They just assumed that they had to connect the dots in order, circle, triangle, etc.

My group got it after spelling out "SP". DM said we were the only group he'd heard about that didn't take any damage on the puzzle.

I really liked the puzzles in Flight of the Zephyr puzzle. I did REALLY dislike the DM from the first room (the druid chick). While doing the puzzle where you have to align the 5 generators with the 25 tiles, she informed us that no line terminates. All form a continuous line to the other side. Well, the pieces were impossible to see when not placed on top of the light. When we'd put a piece down just to get a better look at it, she'd say things like "That piece can't go there since that would terminate some lines." and my friend would kindly respond "We're just trying to get a good look at it" After about 3 or 4 times of this occurring, as politely as I could I said "You don't know what we're doing. You're a DM. Can you please quit trying to act like a party member? We have a system and we don't need you nagging us while we work through this." That solved the issue, but I couldn't believe how involved she was. Also, the clue in that room was horrible and misleading. Overall, I was VERY disappointed in the clues we got in Zephyr. The puzzles were really cool, however. And the final room was great (although I wish they'd have been clearer about the volunteers as we lost our fighter to being a volunteer when I probably would have made a much better candidate). The DMs in the final room did an amazing job, however. Kudos to them.

our hawk-kin teased us a bit for being land-bound and such. and generally treated us as lesser beings...all within character. I don't remember her taunting us during the puzzle, but I am also very good at tuning things out. which isn't always a good thing when my wife is trying to get my attention. though, she did figure out a trick while we were dating, she just has to say "hit pause" before starting in to what she actually wants to say to me.

as for the hawk-kin taunting, I actually gave it right back and suggested that I was probably better with a bow than she was. she gave me a dirty look, but I DID have +20 to hit with my bow (extra +3 from AoW).


On the subject of having tickets and checking in. my groups had that issue multiple times. first, Stacey (best friend) was coming over from a workshop. she knew she had to leave it early to make it, but since I have all the tokens she uses AND her ticket, she wasn't worried. I tried to explain at the check-in desk and was practically shooed away. not literally, but I didn't matter how I tried to explain that my friend would be here and showed the ticket, the person didn't seem to care. they wanted the other person to be there before they would even acknowledge the ticket. it turned out okay because she showed up with time to spare, but...
During the double-down run with Raven, Raven had told the check-in person what we were doing, and that the 5th person was running late, but would be there. despite telling them exactly what was going on, mere minutes after the start time, in walk 2 people we don't know. this was a big problem for us; we bought the run specifically to run NIGHTMARE and with only 5 players. Raven ran out to the desk and got it all cleared up, but it never should have come to that. just a bit of customer service at check-in would go a long way. PLEASE send someone into the coaching room to talk to the party before selling off a slot in their run AND/OR take notes on a run when someone checking in tells you something. for example: if a player checks in and shows you they have 2 extra tickets for friends that are showing up later, mark the envelope with the wristbands with a "1" and a "2" to indicate that 2 tickets are in the coaching room with a player, and also mark a "1" and "2" on those tickets so you know when those people show up and turn in those specific tickets.

bpsymington wrote:

CJ Heintz wrote:

TJRat wrote:

Joe C wrote: Did anyone pass the rope hall puzzle in Viper's Pit?

I ran this room Sunday - only one group passed. No one spelled out all the letters. A few had to 'eenie-meenie-minie-mo' between the spear and speak.

Many laid out the ropes correctly, but never looked at the pattern (a letter). They just assumed that they had to connect the dots in order, circle, triangle, etc.

My group got it after spelling out "SP". DM said we were the only group he'd heard about that didn't take any damage on the puzzle.

I really liked the puzzles in Flight of the Zephyr puzzle. I did REALLY dislike the DM from the first room (the druid chick). While doing the puzzle where you have to align the 5 generators with the 25 tiles, she informed us that no line terminates. All form a continuous line to the other side. Well, the pieces were impossible to see when not placed on top of the light. When we'd put a piece down just to get a better look at it, she'd say things like "That piece can't go there since that would terminate some lines." and my friend would kindly respond "We're just trying to get a good look at it" After about 3 or 4 times of this occurring, as politely as I could I said "You don't know what we're doing. You're a DM. Can you please quit trying to act like a party member? We have a system and we don't need you nagging us while we work through this." That solved the issue, but I couldn't believe how involved she was. Also, the clue in that room was horrible and misleading. Overall, I was VERY disappointed in the clues we got in Zephyr. The puzzles were really cool, however. And the final room was great (although I wish they'd have been clearer about the volunteers as we lost our fighter to being a volunteer when I probably would have made a much better candidate). The DMs in the final room did an amazing job, however. Kudos to them.

What was wrong with the clue? It said the first line coming off a fuel cell was a single line down the middle, and that was perfectly accurate.

#1, that clue was horribly obvious. Basically it said "The first line coming off the fuel cell has to actually align with the fuel cell" To me, that's a no-brainer. 2nd off, our group initially interpreted it as it had to be just a straight line from one end of the square to the other. This caused us to lose about a minute before we realized this was impossible. The GM later clarified and I wondered why that was a clue. Since the fuel cell had a small line going straight to the center, I figured it was obvious that the first thing coming off would be a straight line in the center. Also, the clue in the room with the Zephyr gas was unhelpful. It said tubes can go around the corner. When they read it, I had already connected a tube around a corner. When we did the Viper Pit, I told my rogue just to take the treasure.

This was my fourth year doing TD, and I was once again blown away by the detail and effort put into everything. I had a good time, for the most part, but there was one thing that detracted from my experience - the noise level.

I found it to be very loud inside, which caused me to essentially miss an entire room. I have a bit of an issue with hearing things in noisy rooms - I have to look people in the face when they're speaking, or else they all pretty much sound like the adults in Peanuts cartoons.

In the medusa room, I didn't have a mirror, so I was forced to look at the floor, and couldn't hear the DM (who apparently thought I was ignoring him), or my party, and two or three people told me, "Hey, we beat her, you can look up, now," before someone finally shook my shoulder and yelled it into my ear.

I know there have always been sound effects and such, but it just seemed excessive, this year.

After missing TD for a couple years, I finally made it back to 2014 by volunteering! My fellow hawk-kin were absolutely wonderful, easing my nerves and offering great suggestions for in-character solutions to the occasional problem that we ran across during runs. (Like the poor newbie group who tried to do multiplication in Zephyr Room 2! "There's no way Cogwind was smart enough for anything that complex.")

I managed to get 2 runs in myself as a player, and Zephyr (Puzzle) was definitely my favorite of the two - though that may be largely because my Viper (Puzzle) group was 8/10 newbies who'd never played before. ("Can I look at the Medusa? I want to see what she looks like!") I particularly liked the sense of teamwork that the final room of Zephyr inspired in my party. Everyone cheered for successes on all parts of the room, the excitement and fun was infectious, and we had great communication for switching between the puzzles and combat within the room. I also loved that little Monodroid eyeball; the DM controlling it was absolutely brilliant. We were all laughing and cheering for the Monodroid as we figured out the puzzle together. Out of my Viper run, my favorite room was the sand puzzle, even though the bloodletting was too slow in my opinion.

Again, this may be colored by the fact that I was running with a lot of newbies, but I found some of the puzzles a bit too difficult. The fuel loading room in Zephyr was a hard one for most of the groups that I ran as Slif the Hawk-kin, and my party barely managed to solve it in time after I had to redirect them from some incorrect math. The rope "SPEAK" room in Viper (I forget what it's called) was something we completely failed to understand, haha. I was also disappointed to not get my Survivor pin for Zephyr. :'( At least we got some great photos.

All in all, I had a great time, and that run on Zephyr (Puzzle) will stay with me as a great memory. The concept for that final room was brilliant, and my party made it work so that it felt like the climactic, iconic scene it was meant to be. I met Raven for the first time this year, and she is downright awesome; she gave some tokens away to my newbie friend and that made her deliriously happy for the rest of the con. Can't wait to see you all again next year!!

Diane wrote: All in all, I had a great time, and that run on Zephyr (Puzzle) will stay with me as a great memory. The concept for that final room was brilliant, and my party made it work so that it felt like the climactic, iconic scene it was meant to be. I met Raven for the first time this year, and she is downright awesome; she gave some tokens away to my newbie friend and that made her deliriously happy for the rest of the con. Can't wait to see you all again next year!!

This paragraph is full of awesome! I definitely agree with all of it, heh.

A bit late to the party, but here are my two cents on the dungeons:

Zephyr Combat
Pros:
- Puzzles that encouraged teamwork
- Fun utilization of new technologies
Cons:
- Windbox puzzle was craaay, too cray.
- I absolutely hated the last room. I got stuck on the balancing part of the flying, and it was so infuriating. I never got the hang of it, and it completely turned me off. I had enjoyed the entirety of the dungeon, up until this point, and I was just absolutely DONE. Ugh.
Overall:
Enjoyed it, but again, the magic sputtered out for me in that last room. The effects were really cool and fun, but.. yeah, really, that last room just completely meh'd that dungeon to me.

Viper Combat
Pros:
- Refreshing puzzles, reminiscent of older dungeons
- Fun utilization of new technologies
- OH MAN, BUT DAT VIPRON, DOE. Absolutely GORGEOUS boss!
Cons:
- (none?)
Overall:
Viper Pit was my favored of the two dungeons this year, purely because it brought about a certain feeling of dungeon that I haven't had in quite a few years! Absolutely loved every room in it.

In other news..

I WAS SO SAD YA'LL WOULDN'T LET ME BE A FLYING TALKING SHARK....

But at least I heard that SOMEBODY got to utilize Sharknado potential.


From behind the scenes opinions:

Some of you experienced players need to ease the eff up on some of the newer players in the room. As a Hawk-Kin NPC, I got to see some groups that made me happy to be associated with the game, and some groups that simply mortified me. I worked Zephyr Puzzle Thursday night and Friday, Saturday, and Sunday mornings. On those shifts, it was shocking how many times I witnessed experienced players loudly and rudely belittle the newer players. I watched, in horror, as a newbie suggested the correct set up to the room 2 Zephyr puzzle and a player I recognize from years before (that I will not name) looked him right in the eye and said "NO. You're WRONG."

What on EARTH kind of message is that sending to potentially returning players? He immediately shut down and I didn't see him speak the rest of my time with them. How ruined was his experience by something that WE as a COMMUNITY can easily fix? Yeeowch.

Another thing I noticed, some of the coaches or training room coaches were either overwhelmed or completely uncaring, especially on the Friday and Saturday morning shifts. I had one person that didn't even mark the difficulty of the party, let alone their start time and date, etc. I also had a group of complete newbies that, after they solved the light-table puzzle in room 1, then proceeded to ask me how their health points work, how to use spells, etc. Thank goodness I've been doing this for a few years, I was able to gather them up and explain how to use their character card, how tokens work, how spells and spell checks are performed, etc. (In the third room, after my character is thrown out the window, I wanted to watch their progress and saw them struggling to fight and asking the combat DM a ton of questions. I slipped back in and offered to do their spells while he concentrated on their sliding, and together we were able to guide them through the fight. They beat the monster and were looking pretty confident. I don't know if they survived the dungeon, but I think they're gonna be back!)



And now to respond to some peeps specifically:

John Monsour wrote: Now I want to say a big thank you to the female NPC who we started the adventure with. She is the only reason I am considering coming back next year because her character was so cool. If anyone knows who she is please let me know so I can send her a personal thank you.

I was one of the three Hawk-Kin on Combat that morning, as Deni mentioned, so I'm not 100% sure it was me, but I'm glad that one of us was able to leave a positive impression on you! The three of us are all multi-year volunteers now, and we know how imperative it is that everyone has, first and foremost, a fun and enjoyable time. I felt it was unfortunate that we had puzzles that limited participation, especially for something that you cannot help. To be honest, I was completely unaware our pipes were latex until "LATEX ALLERGY" was written in big letters on one of the party cards I read! Once I learned that, I made a conscious effort to remind everyone as we entered the room to watch out for them.

Deni Valetutto wrote: Our group purchased all of our tickets for one run, but one of our people was a volunteer and her replacement turned up late. By the time she got there, the front desk had already resold her ticket (even though we told them that she was definitely coming).

valetutto wrote: but at least our 11th was actually pretty cool and I think we make him an uber fan.

He ended up being AWESOME, and that worked out wonderfully.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I can not see one single instance where it should EVER be considered valid to resell someone's ticket if we have verification that the player IS coming and we have the ticket in hand.

Especially when I was literally changing out of my NPC costume and wiping off my makeup to sprint my way to the training room. For my situation, I really am surprised my fellow volunteers didn't take that in to consideration, despite what my friends were telling them.

Now look, I understand that there are a lot of people that want to do runs, but when we intentionally purchase ALL of the tickets for the run, it does come across as money-hungry if you're then RE-selling those already-sold tickets to other people. Not cool, brah. I think upon initial check in, they should verify if we have all of the tickets, we have the choice as to whether to allow more people to come join us or not. If we have three tickets and nobody else is showing up, then by all means get some more players in there. Whatever.

kurtreznor wrote: During the double-down run with Raven, Raven had told the check-in person what we were doing, and that the 5th person was running late, but would be there. despite telling them exactly what was going on, mere minutes after the start time, in walk 2 people we don't know. this was a big problem for us; we bought the run specifically to run NIGHTMARE and with only 5 players. Raven ran out to the desk and got it all cleared up, but it never should have come to that.

This particular situation was a little more complicated, due to the fact that our 5th person was a TD volunteer, and the reason she was running late was that her replacement hadn't arrived on time. TD staff had been alerted to this fact by Radio, but due to her diligence in remaining on shift until a replacement was found, she had her run tickets sold out from underneath her.

Now, I recognize that the volunteer at the check-in desk was doing her job. She was doing it by the book, and she was respectful and polite. But the way things are done "by the book" needs to be revisited if TD is re-selling tickets from players and volunteers who are present, and who are doing everything within their power to make sure the tickets are handed in, and that TD gets the money for the run.

I wish I could contact the 2 new players who were part of this mix up, to thank them (again!) for their understanding, and willingness to go on a different run. I hope they had a good time, and that our frustration when they were assigned to join our Nightmare run did not spoil their enjoyment of the game.

Drakku wrote: I WAS SO SAD YA'LL WOULDN'T LET ME BE A FLYING TALKING SHARK....

But at least I heard that SOMEBODY got to utilize Sharknado potential.

WooHoo for Sharknado!!!

I was privy to the Sharknado plans being made at WYC and am sad it wasn't viable for most of TD, but kudos to Incognito for "letting it fly" (haha) in True Grind

From behind the scenes opinions:

(snip) I also had a group of complete newbies that, after they solved the light-table puzzle in room 1, then proceeded to ask me how their health points work, how to use spells, etc. Thank goodness I've been doing this for a few years, I was able to gather them up and explain how to use their character card, how tokens work, how spells and spell checks are performed, etc. (In the third room, after my character is thrown out the window, I wanted to watch their progress and saw them struggling to fight and asking the combat DM a ton of questions. I slipped back in and offered to do their spells while he concentrated on their sliding, and together we were able to guide them through the fight. They beat the monster and were looking pretty confident. I don't know if they survived the dungeon, but I think they're gonna be back!)

I'm really glad you could be there to help them out a bit. That's one of the awesome things about having a DM/NPC follow the party for a few rooms... you can get to know the party and help them out if they're having some troubles. And good on you for doing so, instead of saying "Not my problem if the Coaches didn't do their job." Like you said - we are a Community, and it falls on us to reach out & fix things where we can.


Also...

Diane wrote: I met Raven for the first time this year, and she is downright awesome; she gave some tokens away to my newbie friend and that made her deliriously happy for the rest of the con.

I'm really glad to hear that your friend appreciated the tokens! Please don't tell the Greyhawk Thieves Guild that I've given stuff away for free, or they'll revoke my Guild membership... but it makes me happy to know that someone else had a great con because of something I did.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: At the very least have DMs willing to avoid push damage if someone with the solution privately tells them the solution and lets the room play. That's what my Viper room DM did and it worked great.

I think that's a great idea. It allows players who know the answer to relax and encourage players new to the puzzle, and potentially enhance their experience rather than detract from it.

The early push damage can lead to what we've seen for complaints in posts from newer players of "veterans solved the puzzle quickly, and I felt like I wasn't part of the team".

Also, if you're doing a run with friends because you have enjoyed running with them in the past, and it's their first time doing the run, (and you've solved it on a prior run)it's much more fun to let them solve the puzzle rather than have the urgency of "We know the puzzle. We have to solve it NOW to avoid early push damage." Likewise, it avoids the players who have solved the puzzle on a previous run from resenting having players doing the puzzle for the first time.