TOPIC: End the Combat and Puzzle Variations in 2014?

I like the idea that more people will be able to experience True Dungeon. This means I can stop at 4 runs plus True Grind if possible. Have to run two Nightmare and hoping for another back to back greedy sealed run. One upside might be that we see more people looking to collect tokens, which helps keep TD healthy and able to offer better experiences each year.

Only a day old and 7 pages worth of replies to get through. Great discussion topic.

I agree with most of the sentiment that shortening the rooms would potentially be a mistake as it might make the room experience more frustrating.

I am very torn about the single path with variation vs the Puzzle/Combat current system. I also try to run 4 times- 1 for each type. The fact that is usually 2 or 3 differences in the versions makes it very enjoyable and fresh. And if i do know the puzzle answer, I, like most vets usually try to keep quiet and let the rest solve the puzzle until it gets close to the end. With a common dungeon with perhaps the 1 room versatility of "choose to go through the door to fight the bad guy or the other door to try and puzzle your way around him" is good but is only 1 room variation difference. I am not sure it would be as enticing.

I absolutely understand that the demand on Jeff's time and creativity keep growing and want to be sensitive to that. I also hope this is a temporary move and we can get back to being in the big room with more flexibility next year.

If we do go to the common dungeons this year I think that the idea of having 1 room that is flexible- combat or puzzle (A or based on either which door you come out of the last room or else having 2 different rooms you can go to is a good one if we have the space.

One thing I would suggest for any room that can be either puzzle or combat..... make sure any monsters are seen. One year I missed out on seeing the Fire Elemental. If the choice causes exclusion you not to see one of the effects at all, you'll wish you had taken more runs, or out of fear of missing you'll automatically pick up more. By getting to see the effect, the person choosing the puzzle will at least not have missed anything completely unique.

I like the idea of opening up AG to non-2K spenders. Perhaps it could be an xp level bonus, maybe giving the Medallion of Nobility an additional function. This would reward the players who may not spend enough annually to qualify for AG but who have continued to support TD.

Amorgen Burke wrote: One thing I would suggest for any room that can be either puzzle or combat..... make sure any monsters are seen. ...

Yes please. Monsters or other cool effects.

One thing I just thought of, is that if a room is set up for both combat or a puzzle then the run type would have to be very strictly enforced.

I can see it now: A puzzle run reaches a room that is a puzzle, but would have been a combat had it been a combat run. One person in the party asks about fighting the monster - after all, even in a puzzle run there are combats; how are the players supposed to know if this monster is meant to be fought or out-puzzled?

If even one DM responds to even one player inquiry by asking the group what they want, I foresee chaos and bad mojo. Every DM answer for such a situation should be along the lines of: "No, sorry. This is a puzzle run, and this room seems to offer a puzzle. What do you do?"

Amorgen Burke wrote: I like the idea of opening up AG to non-2K spenders. Perhaps it could be an xp level bonus, maybe giving the Medallion of Nobility an additional function.

I like the idea of linking the special run to Nobility (hopefully I will reach 5th level this year), but I think Jeff really wants to limit it to big token buyers to thank them.

It makes me a bit sad, since I'll never be able to spend more than, say, $500 a year on tokens. But doing something special for the big buyers is understandable.

Then again, if someone reaches 5th level, that is a fair amount of support they've been giving True Dungeon over the years. I see your point.

The answer to the issue of rewarding both large token buyers and veterans is to charge the large token buyers less or nothing to run the special dungeon, while a premium is charged to veterans who are not large token buyers. This can be done by providing a voucher for a free run in the large token shipments.

Garrison wrote:

Amorgen Burke wrote: One thing I would suggest for any room that can be either puzzle or combat..... make sure any monsters are seen. ...

Yes please. Monsters or other cool effects.

One thing I just thought of, is that if a room is set up for both combat or a puzzle then the run type would have to be very strictly enforced.

I can see it now: A puzzle run reaches a room that is a puzzle, but would have been a combat had it been a combat run. One person in the party asks about fighting the monster - after all, even in a puzzle run there are combats; how are the players supposed to know if this monster is meant to be fought or out-puzzled?

If even one DM responds to even one player inquiry by asking the group what they want, I foresee chaos and bad mojo. Every DM answer for such a situation should be along the lines of: "No, sorry. This is a puzzle run, and this room seems to offer a puzzle. What do you do?"

Amorgen Burke wrote: I like the idea of opening up AG to non-2K spenders. Perhaps it could be an xp level bonus, maybe giving the Medallion of Nobility an additional function.

I like the idea of linking the special run to Nobility (hopefully I will reach 5th level this year), but I think Jeff really wants to limit it to big token buyers to thank them.

It makes me a bit sad, since I'll never be able to spend more than, say, $500 a year on tokens. But doing something special for the big buyers is understandable.

Then again, if someone reaches 5th level, that is a fair amount of support they've been giving True Dungeon over the years. I see your point.

I think, if a room could be puzzle or combat, that choice would be made by the players in the room, not at the start of the run by strictly choosing a puzzle or combat option. It might be something like "you see a Fire Elemental, you can choose to fight him or try to solve this puzzle to unlock the door to the left and bypass him completely".

AG companion badges would be a decent idea. So its still somewhat "exclusive" but allows for some reasonable flexability.




I do really think we should replace the Nightmare ticket slots with a single $440 ticket that is all the spots for that run. This would help vets, big token buyers and preformed groups alike in the quest to get runs at the time they desire.

DM training will need to be at an all time high.
Rooms with choices are going to be inherantly harder than those that don't.
I think they are capable of it but it cannot go uncommented.

For example, the wil-o-wisp was supposed to be a puzzle or combat but my group correctly identified the fake pillar yet we still fought the wisp. Still not quite sure how that happened.

But I DO really like the idea of defeat the puzzle or defeat the monster you choose, type deal, so groups can make their own way.

valetutto wrote: I do really think we should replace the Nightmare ticket slots with a single $440 ticket that is all the spots for that run. This would help vets, big token buyers and preformed groups alike in the quest to get runs at the time they desire.

Agreed 100%. Love the idea of some full runs (all 10 tickets) sold as a block instead, in addition to other runs sold individually. But this should be an option for all types of runs. Then as folks pointed out, if they don't sell, then just break them apart and make available for sale individually the next day. Would really make it easier to get a whole run for a large group without full runs broken apart here and there by individual buyers.

I would be fine with eliminating combat/puzzle separate runs. I always try to do both because I don't want to miss anything and eliminating the distinction would mean I could sign up for a nightmare run or maybe grind.

Shorter time per room, bad, bad, bad.

Possible choice of combat or puzzle in rooms a fun idea.

Combined epic combat would be really fun, but I think it would probably require longer time for that room. Just getting 10 people working together well to complete hard combat can be difficult, especially with newbies. With two groups trying to work together without knowing who is in each party, so much more difficult. It would take clearly defined tasks for each group so that they could take advantage of group dynamic they have already.

Elizabeth McCullers wrote:

valetutto wrote: I do really think we should replace the Nightmare ticket slots with a single $440 ticket that is all the spots for that run. This would help vets, big token buyers and preformed groups alike in the quest to get runs at the time they desire.

Agreed 100%. Love the idea of some full runs (all 10 tickets) sold as a block instead, in addition to other runs sold individually. But this should be an option for all types of runs. Then as folks pointed out, if they don't sell, then just break them apart and make available for sale individually the next day. Would really make it easier to get a whole run for a large group without full runs broken apart here and there by individual buyers.

I like this idea a lot, for both regular and Nightmare (and Hardcore if those are broken out separately). I always try to get full runs, and it can be tough when there are a ticket or two sold out of all the runs. It would be great if some of them were sold as complete blocks, especially if they had the option of getting broken out later if they didn't sell.

Yeah I'm thinking more people complain about not getting a full run then not getting a nightmare ticket. Not to mention all the existing issues with nighmare runs not working as intended. Just simplfy the system and remove nightmare along with the puzzle/combat distinctions. So its just runs at times. And take a chunck out and make them 1 mega ticket.

This would cater to a much larger audience as I know there are tons here and more out there that all want full runs for their groups.

And yes if for some reason a time slot wasn't popular you could always break it up, allowing for more tickets to be "available".

Depending on the times allocated I could easily see 30+ of these going quickly.

This would help combat all the folks that scoop tons of runs just trying to get full runs and all the folks that organize "buy squads" to tackle the task.