TOPIC: End the Combat and Puzzle Variations in 2014?

If we get rid of the puzzle / combat distinctions, I hope the rooms end in a combat (or at least the option of a combat). It just seems appropriate to end the dungeon in a big combat with the Boss monster, it has always seemed anticlimactic to me to end in a puzzle.

Jeff Martin wrote:

Disbeeleaf wrote: We have no special love for the combat vs. puzzle variations, so no loss there. I think predicability in TD is a negative anyway. The more uncertainty there is within reason, the better.

I think the issue you want to overcome is the multiple ticket purchases by veteran players.

I think you were on the right track earlier in the year with an extra dungeon for Adventurer Guild holders. If you can swing the space and support, offer three dungeons, each unique and different from the others. Two would be the standard two dungeons that are offered each year. Offer one completion token for each. The third dungeon would be only for Adventurer Guild members, who just happen to be veteran players who buy lots of tickets. Offer both of the completion tokens in the AG dungeon. Charge more for the AG dungeon, allow more time in the rooms, include interactive multi room NPCs, make it a serious dungeon that will take our breath away with clever brilliance.

Also, expand True Grind so an extended time schedule is offered. That way it will absorb veterans for longer. It only takes up one room but it does require an experienced DM.

As TD expands, the challenge will be to keep the veterans happy and attract new players at the same time. Each group requires a different kind of encouragement. No one said it would be simple, but it is certainly doable.

The other thing you need to do is keep the software working like a charm so no one ever has reason to doubt it. As it is, no one has confidence in the records.

I agree with much of what is said here. Unfortunately, Gen Con Indy's massive growth has been both a boon and a bust for TD. In 2014 we are moving to the Exhibit Hall A which is right next door to our location in 2013. This new space has the same length, but it is about 16 feet less wide. We have to do some major changes to the storyscape space to shoehorn in our event. Adding in a 5th mini-event will be nearly impossible, but I am trying to mini-max the event space as best as possible.

Perhaps we can expand some kind of Spring event to thank the AG members for their support. This year we are getting our feet wet at Who's Yer Con, and I hope to build on that greatly in 2015.

Also, for the first time ever in TD history, we are hitting an "total tickets" wall that we have previously been able to break through by adding more dungeons. I don't see much of a way to expand ticket numbers, so perhaps a Spring event would be a good way to give AG members more benefit for their patronage.

Hi Jeff,

If you put on some sort of Spring Event, perhaps there might be a way to have both AG members and non-AG members participate, since AG members are such a small percentage of players? For instance, AG members could get one guaranteed run for free, and others would pay a fee on a first come/first served basis.

It is hard to imagine if True Realm had only been open to AG members. Although I do understand if you want to keep it strictly to AG members in order to help spur token sales. I just wonder if you're risking creating some ill-will at something like WYC if a bunch of potential players come by to play and find out that only AG members can get in. Of course the other side of the coin is that if you open it up in some way to non-AG members, you might have an overwhelming amount of people wanting to participate.

Thanks,
Mike

Anthony brown wrote:
Random Idea
Take the extra space and maybe make a 20 person encounter ... 2 groups 2 dm's ... hardcore epic battle. Would be nice to end a story arch with something like this.

Regards,
Anthony Brown

Ohh! I love that idea. Maybe not the end room, but somewhere in the middle. And the combat is against many opponents (3-5?), so the two groups have to quickly resort and figure out who will battle who... also giving more folks a chance to slide. Since normally the slide board is so full, several players get pressured not to slide to not clutter the good shots. You'd need several DMs, but since its a combined room, its less of a personnel pressure.

But also please let me add to the 1) ok with dropping the puzzle/combat distinction, 2) love the idea of at least one room that can be completed either puzzle or combat (like the shadow monster of 2006 which I still remember), and 3) for the love of all that is holy and unholy, please DONT shorten the room durations. Also please don't get rid of True Grind or the Tavern if you can help it. They add a lot of flavor without taking up too much space, in my opinion. Frankly on a personal note, this make it easier for us as my family was split evenly in choosing between puzzle and combat, so this eliminates that argument.

Thank you for all that you do! Looking forward to getting back into it.

Ok this is of course just a Idea. But Lets take out the idea of a 3rd dungeon or mini adventure. And instead maybe had one or two rooms in a dungeon where there is a kind of choose your own adventure path.

So You solve the puzzle or beat the monster and there are two doors. The Gm says that from one door you hear some howling wind or something. And the other door your hear growling or something.

The party moves to whatever room they want. And encounters another puzzle or combat. Now if you did this in both dungeons say twice, It would only add 4 extra rooms total. But then would have some players wondering what they missed so it does allow for replay.

Takes up a little extra room yes, but would allow for some diversity in the game play. Without too much extra space being taken.

I am on the side that asks not shorten the length of the rooms. I believe that if you offer a choice in paths, you just get back to people buying up more than a few runs so that they can experience both.

Is there anyway to have the AG/TG/old school dungeons be in a hotel, ala 2010 and earlier? I know this might create an issue for oversight, but wouldn't take up anywhere near the room that was used in the past.

And ty to Raven for pointing out the completion token thing, my brain was waaaay too fuzzy when I posted yesterday.

I was just thinking about the same thing as Ian. Could True Grind/ AG stuff be moved to another location either in the convention center or a neighbouring hotel? This would allow the dungeons/storyscapes some extra space. And also allow those events to expand. Obviously volunteers behind the issue. But is that feasible?

Jeff Martin wrote:

Disbeeleaf wrote:

I agree with much of what is said here. Unfortunately, Gen Con Indy's massive growth has been both a boon and a bust for TD. In 2014 we are moving to the Exhibit Hall A which is right next door to our location in 2013. This new space has the same length, but it is about 16 feet less wide. We have to do some major changes to the storyscape space to shoehorn in our event. Adding in a 5th mini-event will be nearly impossible, but I am trying to mini-max the event space as best as possible.

Perhaps we can expand some kind of Spring event to thank the AG members for their support. This year we are getting our feet wet at Who's Yer Con, and I hope to build on that greatly in 2015.

Also, for the first time ever in TD history, we are hitting an "total tickets" wall that we have previously been able to break through by adding more dungeons. I don't see much of a way to expand ticket numbers, so perhaps a Spring event would be a good way to give AG members more benefit for their patronage.

A spring event would be different. Where would it be held? Maybe Columbus, or Carbondale?

A common answer to space issues at conventions is satellite locations. Pick a medium to small size off site hotel, maybe 10-15 minutes away, that has a convention hall and make arrangements to use their hall for an additional attraction. It should be a lot cheaper, some of those hotels don't always even use their convention space and it would attract customers to stay at the hotel too.

Mike Steele wrote: If you put on some sort of Spring Event, perhaps there might be a way to have both AG members and non-AG members participate, since AG members are such a small percentage of players? For instance, AG members could get one guaranteed run for free, and others would pay a fee on a first come/first served basis.

Perhaps a compromise. It's only open to AG members and they are allowed to purchase up to X number of additional slots for family/friends who couldn't afford 2K in tokens. Any slots not sold out to AG members and their associates would then be opened up for anybody on a first come/first serve basis. If this year's event had allowed additional ticket purchases, I probably would have tried to work out coming.

The problem with expanding the Spring Event beyond AGs if it is held at Who's Yer Con is that WYC is a free con. Nobody is supposed to charge for games at WYC.

I would like to see that policy changed at WYC when it comes to larger attractions like True Dungeon. I'll talk to the people on the board of WYC when it comes to this. Maybe a hybrid approach would work for them.

bpsymington wrote: Dropping the combat/puzzle distinction would be okay, IMHO. We still would have the variation between the two different dungeons, it would open up more ticket slots, it would be easier to set up and run the dungeons from an administrative viewpoint.

The main drawback would be the reduced number of awesome rooms to experience, but the benefits might outweigh the drawbacks.

What does the math come out to if the combat/puzzle was removed, and the rooms were moved to 10 minutes, but have 8 rooms in order to get more story and variety on the run?

Note: I am not in favor of 10 min runs over 12 min runs since 12 min doesn't seem like enough time currently. Just a thought.

Anthony brown wrote: So I think this is a great idea for a few reasons.

1) Lets look at Nightmare ... Puzzle Nightmare after Thursday is almost a gimme except for a few combat encounters that should be easily doable by a Red equipped group. It is almost a slap in the face to people that really have to gear up for Combat Nightmare only to get the same rewards as a bunch of people that just have been told the puzzle solution.

Be honest ... is puzzle Nightmare really the "end game" you want ?

Honestly for some people it is, and if you really care about puzzles its not hard to avoid spoilers. As forum junkies we have to be careful to remember that not everyone views the dungeon through the same lenses we do but that no one way is really better then any of the others as long as people are having fun.

Picc wrote: ... As forum junkies we have to be careful to remember that not everyone views the dungeon through the same lenses we do...

VERY true. I have been on runs with people on Saturday that had no clue how any of the puzzles worked. I would only step in if they asked for a hint or were totally stuck.

When they would ask for a hint I would make it meaningful but somewhat vague. Something as simple as, "You might want to read that again..." can work wonders without making them feel like they didn't solve the puzzle.

Last year during the coaching room rumor purchase I made sure that people knew that if we paid for it it just might be IMPORTANT! That alone helped a great deal and I didn't have to say a thing in the switch room.