TOPIC: Feedback Needed on Relic/Legend Event Idea

Jeff Martin wrote: These are all good posts! Thank you. I will stew on your ideas over night. Time for bed!

I just want to say that my ultimate goal here is to attract new big token buyers while keeping the older big token buyers happy. A secondary goal would be to make Relics and Legendaries more cool to reward the older big token buyers.

Perhaps the easiest solution is just to re-define the $2K reward level, and remove the Adventurers' Guild area from the storyscape (but keep Bag Check). Replace the space instead with a mini-event only playable by AG members. It would be a 4-room retro event where you would keep one GM through the whole thing. Each AG member would get a special token they would have to turn in at the event start in order to play (like the Golden Ticket). These tokens would not be soulforged, so an $8K order would get 4 eligible admission tokens.

The event could be signed something like "Adventurers' Guild Challenge", and it could have a cool entrance that would be interesting to all passerbys.

Ticket times would be done on the Forum like the Golden Tickets and paid with generic tickets at the event.

Any tokens can be used, and the challenge level would be something like Nightmare+ so it would be a challenge. Unique participation tokens and Survivor buttons would be available...as well as a limited edition participation swag item like a tankard.

The cost of the ticket for the event would have to be the same as a regular dungeon run just to keep the cost manageable. We would have a good idea of the number of eligible AGC tokens, so we could offer enough AGC tickets to allow every AGC token to be used.

This does nothing to directly raise the perceived coolness of Relics and Legendaries (although they would help you survive), but perhaps that is something to tackle with another initiative. This seems like a more elegant proposition.

Thoughts?

Jeff,

To me, this proposal isn't nearly as cool as the original. I liked the original idea of a special combat that only used Relic and above items. Maybe the unique Cubic Gate token isn't even needed, it sounds like making a unique token for each individual player, by 30 Sep, is a big problem. You can limit participation to those that, for instance, spent $4K or more on tokens that year.

You can easily have a list of names of the people that spent that at the entry, and just check them off once they play. You can have an upper limit of how many people can play, and have it first come/first served among the people that spent $4K or more (with maybe a waitlist in case people drop out). To get around the need to create special Planar relic weapons and armor, why not do it like it was done in 2003/4? Each character comes with a default armor and weapon (unless they have a better relic or above one), and the only tokens allowed other than that are Relics/Eldritch/Legendary. The armor could be on the character card, and perhaps you'd have a special weapon token for each character class just for that event that they could keep as a keepsake. Perhaps the Rogue card would include Masterwork Thieves Tools so that the Rogue could still pick locks.

That way it rewards the big token buyers ($4K or more to get in), and incentivizes Relics/Eldritch/Legendary purchases (they are the only tokens other than the default armor/weapons that can be used). Maybe you have a reward at the $4K Level of a Cubic Gate Token (I like Planar Gate better) for the first $4K someone spends, that can only be used by a person that spent $4K or more (their name will be on the list at the entrance, and like you said the teams could be assembled ahead of time like the Golden Ticket teams are).

Even if someone doesn't have a single Relic, they can still play with the default armor/weapon. But the more relics/artifacts/legendary they have, the better outfitted they will be.

How does that sound?

Thanks,
Mike

I guess if keeping the list of names is too complicated, you could treat the Cubic Gate Token you get at the $4K level like a Golden Ticket. The buyer can keep it for themselves, or trade/sell it. Whoever ends up with it would add themselves to the team at the appropriate time/day, and when they show up for the run they would have to turn in the Cubic Gate Token.

Jeff Martin wrote: These are all good posts! Thank you. I will stew on your ideas over night. Time for bed!

I just want to say that my ultimate goal here is to attract new big token buyers while keeping the older big token buyers happy. A secondary goal would be to make Relics and Legendaries more cool to reward the older big token buyers.

Perhaps the easiest solution is just to re-define the $2K reward level, and remove the Adventurers' Guild area from the storyscape (but keep Bag Check). Replace the space instead with a mini-event only playable by AG members. It would be a 4-room retro event where you would keep one GM through the whole thing. Each AG member would get a special token they would have to turn in at the event start in order to play (like the Golden Ticket). These tokens would not be soulforged, so an $8K order would get 4 eligible admission tokens.

The event could be signed something like "Adventurers' Guild Challenge", and it could have a cool entrance that would be interesting to all passerbys.

Ticket times would be done on the Forum like the Golden Tickets and paid with generic tickets at the event.

Any tokens can be used, and the challenge level would be something like Nightmare+ so it would be a challenge. Unique participation tokens and Survivor buttons would be available...as well as a limited edition participation swag item like a tankard.

The cost of the ticket for the event would have to be the same as a regular dungeon run just to keep the cost manageable. We would have a good idea of the number of eligible AGC tokens, so we could offer enough AGC tickets to allow every AGC token to be used.

This does nothing to directly raise the perceived coolness of Relics and Legendaries (although they would help you survive), but perhaps that is something to tackle with another initiative. This seems like a more elegant proposition.

Thoughts?

I **really** like this idea a lot. I think its much better than the Cubic Gate idea. As long as the AG bag check remains, I think replacing the AG area with a AG-only mini-event is a great idea!

darkangel866 wrote: I'm not saying don't reward large token buyers. I am saying don't tie entry to a dungeon to something other than a ticket. If Jeff wants to charge $2000 a ticket, more power to him.

I consider myself a mid level buyer. I have bought at least $1000 for 4 years. I'm having a baby in January. So, because I might not buy at that level, I get punished. Even though I have supported at a high level for years.

And, thanks, big token buyers. Without you, TD would not be what it is today.

Why is rewarding the large collectors for every $2k they spend punishing other players? That makes no sense to me. If it wasn't for the large collectors, TD would stop functioning. Here is another way to look at it: You get to ride on the tail-coats of the large collectors who keep TD running by getting to play TD every year. Large collectors are currently being "punished" by not getting a good value from their AG membership, which they get one membership per $2k spent on tokens. In order to make AG membership a better value and more fair for the large collectors, a mini-event is proposed to replace the AG table space... which isn't being used currently. I am sure you can see how easily the viewpoint on this issue can be spun around, and how harsh it can seem from another viewpoint as well.

Repurposing the AG table space which isn't being used into a mini-event space for AG members is a great idea. For every $2k spent, you get an AG pin, an AG mini-event token/ticket for entry to said mini-event, and access to bag check. That right there is a great value and great "thank you" to all the people who spend the $$$ required to keep TD open year after year.

Why not keep it simple. Complication is part of what swallowed up the last proposal...

Every $2k gets you a Gate. You can use/trade/sell/eat it as you please.
Holder reserves a spot on the forum a la GT runs.

Like GT, slots can be Hardcore, Nightmare or Freakin' Nightmare as the group decides. FN has the relics-only rules, or whatever rules that group wants to use, like 24-player Naked Dagger Nightmare for all I care... But not everyone wants to play relic-only, and some do. Why not let them decide? I assume sets, puppets and puzzles would be the same, only stats and push/fail damage would differ and that's just stuff printed on paper.

Holder is responsible to pay their way in, unlike the GT.

If you want a different comp token for FN then fine, assuming there are any comp tokens.

Regarding old dungeon parts, I really liked the opportunity to play Five Aspects which redid the original 2003 dungeon.

Rather than bring back parts and limit those to a select few, I'd rather see one of each of the old dungeons "redone" once a year, giving everyone who is newer a chance to experience the old dungeons. Back in 2004, for my first run, when time management wasn't as developed, my party didn't have a chance to get all the way through the dungeon. I'd love a second try at that. We have a lot of avid fans now who weren't around for the earlier dungeons, and we will continue to add on new people who come to love TD as we do.

Well, I have gone through all of the posts so far and it was quite a bit to digest. Jeff must be pulling his hair out LOL!!

Most of you know me, I am classified as one of those "big buyers" as I outfit a party of 10 each year and have made quite a few relics over the last two years.

As originally proposed, this idea (well I could use a few bad words here, but I'll just say) "lacks a lot to be desired".

I absolutely hate one use URs; one use relics? (shudder). I don't know about you but I don't go out and buy a Hi-def fancy plasma TV just to watch it once (even if it was the super bowl). I want to use it over and over again.

Making relics UR level with planar travel a very, very bad idea. It is a complete dis-incentive to purchase tokens.

That being said, the thread's concept changed mid-stream to something that is more palatable.

If this is supposed to reward big buyers then tying it to the AG or something like the AG seems to be the way to go.

I used the bag check 3 out of the 5 runs I had. I need a pretty good sized carry-on bag to transport my team of 10 folders and the bag check was extremely useful. Whatever we do, I think that the AG bag check should remain.

Since the number of slots is limited, the first question that needs to be solved is how many AG badges were sent out last year. That would be your best indicator for determining the demand for next year. If this number exceeds the 60 that Jeff is proposing to set aside, then the level (dollars spent) needs to rise, even though a lot of people will complain.

I'm not sure the once per person per year is the right way to go. While I have (potentially) more than 10 players who could use the AG buttons I get, scheduling conflicts may prevent them from coming as we put on our own events (NASCRAG tournament and charity). Then there are people like Lazlo who spends a ton of money but outfits only himself. Something needs to be done to cover the big buyers otherwise this is also a detrement to purchasing lots of tokens. Interestingly, if you increase the amount required to get one of these AG buttons or AG like buttons it reduces the potential conflict of not being able to use them. So, maybe these should be a 4K or 8k reward.

There is also the cost factor (to the players). This year 3 players from my team (including myself) played in 5 runs at a cost of $176 per person (GT run was free, sort of, LOL!!). Another 3-4 played in three and was from the same family, which cost them $440. Adding another run at full cost only makes this problem worse. Some will opt out of other dungeons and thus impact ticket sales. If this is really meant to be a reward for large token purchase, then it should be free (or at most a nominal cost of a few dollars).

Scheduling: I suggest that it be done offline (not on GenCon registration system); I know this impacts TD staff (probably, mostly Lori, (sorry Lori, LOL)) but it would ensure that only qualified players sign up for these slots.

XP: No XP should be given for this; giving XP could alienate long term players who have supported TD from its infancy but may not purchase 4k-8K tokens each year.

Completeion token: I'm fine with a unique trophy here. Those that collect tokens will have ample opportunity to get one of these. As a side note, treasure tokens shouldn't be rewarded (or maybe one like in True Grind).

Expanding on an idea I saw in an earlier post, we should have some sort of "starter pack" that can only be used in the extraplanar world. I would make a "Spell Caster (SC)" pack and a "Fighter (F)" pack. The SC pack could have a few scrolls or potions, a wand, and some miscellanous magic items (like an ioun stone, or a charm). Make the scrolls, potions, and wands one use per room so that you can keep these unique tokens (so says the token collector). Have the F pack contain a weapon or two, some armor or shield, and some miscellaneous item. This would allow Relic and Legendary items to continue as they are but still provide some basic equipment and/or flavor. For example:
SC:
Scroll of Eldritch Blast - 3 pts of Eldritch damage to all monsters
Potion of Mist - Character assumes mist form - first hit misses
Wand of Force Bolt - 8 pts of Force damage
IS:Spell Echo - can recast one spell at half strength (round up)
Dungeon Flavor Token
F:
+3 Club - 2H - D10 wheel
+3 Arbalest - 2h - D8 wheel
+2 Shield of Thorns - +2AC and 3 pts of retribution damage
Boots of Dodging - 50% miss chance from missile attacks
Dungeon Flavor Token

I like the Cubic Gate idea better than the Adventurers Guild Challenge idea.

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I do not like the idea of single use Cubic Gates. However what about this: The mystic energies of a Cubic Gate need to be recharged. A newly forged gate is fully charged, but there after it must be recharged. To be used again, it must drain the energy of a powerful item or other mystic source.

So basically the year you create it you get admission (aside from ticket cost, natch). Every year after that you must 'recharge' it by turning in either a UR or a Philosopher's Stone + 1,000 GP (or something similar).

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I do not like the idea of Relics with the same power as URs but are Planar. I think it will hurt TD's token sales. That said, the new Relics don't have to be +3. How about a +2 weapon that can critical any creature, even those that are normally immune, and does +2 to outsiders. That's not hugely more powerful, would be useful for a planar adventure, and still is useful in the regular dungeons.

I am surprised no one has bought up the rod of 7 parts for next year yet.

the assembled rod would be a perfect (alternate) way to open a portal like this.

Thanks again for all this great feedback. How does this sound?

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Adventurers' Guild Challenge (working title)

For every $2K purchased in 2014 a token collector would get a AG button that is their passport at the AG Bag Check. They will also receive a Coin of Traveling token that will have an URL on it. At this URL the player will see event info for the AGC as well as a link to reserve a spot on a AGC run. These will be awarded on a first come, first served basis.

When a player arrives at her AGC run, she will turn in her Coin of Traveling which will whisk her away to a distant demi-plane where only certain items exist/work. The player can take any Relic, Legendary or Eldrtich item with them, but they will also be handed a special bag of 10 tokens (has a white backer). These planar items will not be random, but rather fitted to the class they are playing. There will be a total of 20 different planar tokens that can only be used inside the AGC run. They won't work outside the demi-plane. These planar tokens will be of mostly mundane weapons and armor, but a limited amount of magic (like a wand or scroll) might be available. A bard instrument and thieves' tools would be included. Players will use Relics, Legendaries and Eldritch items to augment their characters further.

Players would face a 4-room adventure with rooms from past adventures (tweaked a bit for fun), and at the end they would receive no XP. They would get a different participation token and a Survivor PIN (not button) would be available. They would get to keep their planar tokens as a souvenir or for use the next year in an AGC event. Again, these planar tokens would not be usable inside any TD event other than future AGC events.

The cost of the event would be the same as a normal ticket -- payable with generics at the event start. The deadline to register for an AGC event would be July 1st, so any $2K purchases made after that date would not be eligible to play the AGC.

Thoughts?

To be entirely frank... I don't see the point. Spend 2k on tokens, then cough up an extra $44+ for a four-room dungeon?

I love the idea, also the different colored token bakers make it even cooler. When can I order my tokens?