TOPIC: Feedback Needed on Relic/Legend Event Idea

Raven wrote:

Brad wrote: cycle out the adventures guild badge and reuse this space maybe?

Oooh, but pretty please can we keep the Adventurer's Guild *Bag Check* ?!?!?

In fact, if the "Adventurer's Guild" was phased out or replaced with a Pin at the 2K level which simply said "Bag Check!" (or "Adventurers' Holding Co.") I would be just as interested in it as the current Adventurer's Guild perks.

+1 this sentiment... PLEASE KEEP BAG CHECK... PLEASE. I used the crap out of it this year =) And the staff was AMAZING!

Brad wrote: as a thought how much was the adventures guild used?
I was not there much but rarely saw it filled.

cycle out the adventures guild badge and reuse this space maybe?

that could also link up with the gate item, one per 2 grand spent

This is actually something I've wondered too. I'm sure bag check was popular, but the actual guild seemed empty most of the time. I think there are a lot of things that could be changed in the AG to make it a bigger deal, and help support the game more. (A few have been mentioned in recent other threads.)

I saw one or two groups in there sometimes. One group I walked in and they immediately got up and walked out, I asked why, they said they didn't have the AG Badge.

Make it a tavern, alcohol allowed, slightly better lighting, need the AG button to get in. I think this will increase the usage.

My thougts:

I really like the AG model better, where you can still reward people who buy lots of tokens for their effort. However, as it's run at Nightmare+, and allows everyone to bring in all their stuff from prior years, I don't think it fulfills the goal of briging in new big token buyers. The first time you buy a $2k lot, you've probably got quite a few URs, but maybe not as many relics and legendaries. I wouldn't want to buy a $2k lot to get the coin if I'm going to be going in for the first time and feeling like the weak link in the party next to a guy who has three legendary tokens.

I like the idea of making it a token-lite event. Make it a time warp of sorts where the dungeon is played at a Normal difficulty, but perhaps you're only allowed to bring 1 token of your own with you, and the rest would be commons. It'd function kinda like a sealed run, where your skill matters, but you would get to get the benefits of one of those legendaries. It also wouldn't put off the guy who had only relics at this point, as the power difference between a relic and a legendary isn't huge unless it's multiplied by 3-5. This gives big token buyers a unique game to play, brings them back to old dungeons they love with the gear they had at the time, allows them to bring in something from their collection, and keeps new buyers from feeling inadequate to the task.

I also personally like the idea of it being soulforged, but perhaps it could be soulforged in such a way that you must accompany someone else turning in a token with your name on it. This would limit selling the tokens, and still allow people to bring their friends if they want. You could also combine it, making people build the gate and have purchased a $2k order to get access, but that might be a steep demand.

I really like the idea of better utilizing the adventuring guild space version of this. As it was this year I found myself wondering if the space might not be better used to expand the bag check since there were tables out in the story scape anyway. Something to do in there would definitely increase my desire to want to get in.

As to increasing the desirability of relics I think the key really lies in making sure whatever cool thing the relics are used for is publicly visible as it lets the relic holders show off and makes the audience want to be able to do that cool thing too. If for example using this years dungeons there was something like a tree a character with the legendary girdle (or two characters with the relic girdle) could push over to lock the first few stones in place or perhaps the Genie or fire creature could have been commanded in some manner by characters with the supreme ring. coaches would need to be instructed to note a characters legendaries on the party card and room GMs would need notes about their allowed uses but IMO letting the legendaries be used for stuff like that in the regular dungeon would drastically up their profile and perceived coolness.

I played two sets of back to back sealed runs this past weekend and token weekends can be a lot of fun. Then again I got to play with Rafiq, Fizzikx and Adeya just to name a few.

Or--instead of using commons, go in the other direction and make it "epic," and have standard (awesome) equipment for all characters already factored in by default. Everyone plays as 18-20th level characters, and slides special sliders with epic-level weapons attached (glued in tight... ). You can effectively scale up everything, and have a lot of fun with opponents and challenges well outside the scope of what we've seen already.

As far as other ideas--you can still use the core of the Cubic Gate dea you had. Say you get an Adventurer's Guild pin and an "Epic Spark" token with every $2K order. The Epic Spark and one of each trade item token is required to create a Cubic Gate--which grants one-time access to this epic adventure. That cost further stimulates the trade token economy, but isn't onerous--anyone with a $2k order will have those tokens (other than maybe a Golden Fleece) anyway.

I think that doing something like this could stimulate a huge amount of interest in $2K orders.

Once, there was a game at GenCon called True Dungeon. It was a fun game that allowed players to enter into a dungeon and experience the sights and sounds first hand.

This game proved to be popular and grew faster than anyone could anticipate. As it grew, there came to be a divide between the players that were there from the beginning, and players clamoring to try it for the first time. At first, it was just experience. The elder players had a leg up on figuring out puzzles. Then it was level experience (players XP). A high level player has the right to pick a class before a "N00B." Then came the token divide.

The token divide quickly became the biggest barrier between new players and experienced players. The Year of Smoak was a culmination of this, with a monster that would only be defeated by luck, and a wallet the size of Castle Greyhawk itself.

The following year, Smoak returned in such a state that anyone with a toothpick could destroy her. A complete turn around from the primal destructive force we saw the year before.

Smoak returned for a third time. This time she was undead. The heavy token buyers were rewarded for their sales by gimmicky 'retribution' damage. At least, new players, and smaller token buyers had a chance this time. But the big token buyers still walked through the challenges of the dungeon.

With the rise of Cogwind, a new difficulty level arose. Hardcore promised to be the middle ground, where long time players would be challenged. And Hardcore was pretty successful. But Nightmare was more like a quiet dream. Cogwind carried so much magic, it changed the equipment landscape in True Dungeonland forever.

Now, the gods of True Dungeonland are considering opening another portal to further divide the citizens of the land. This new portal will be another barrier to players who want the full experience.

When I started TD, I was excited for the dungeons. I was excited for the experiences. I bought more tokens, so that I could bring my friends. As our token collection has grown, we have found no challenge anywhere, except in Grind (and Incognito toned Nightmare down for us). We are not a top equipped group, but we walk through every dungeon.

You want to reward the big token buyers? Make this event open to everyone who has spent XXX dollars in the past 3 years, and make it free. Put the words "I am sorry" above the dungeon entrance. Allow them to take a friend.

But, what you propose sounds to me like "I just made your investment of thousands of dollars over the last several years worth 1/2 as much. Now buy more, so I can do it again."

Don't ever, ever, ever tie a dungeon entrance to token buying. It is a bad idea on a lot of levels:

1) It creates a barrier between players. I feel that if I don't buy tokens, I am being punished.

2) New players, who are excited about True Dungeon being told "no, you are not good enough" will drive them away.

3) Groups that are outfitted by 1 player will be fractured. This can lead to players leaving groups, and TD.

You are better served using those resources to open another full dungeon (re-use them in order 1/year starting from 2003). Don't allow players who have already run it gain experience. (But allow them to run it.) You want to end the divide between players. Make it authentic. Give the party 1 torch.

Or open another "training dungeon" where new players can get into the game easily. Run the training dungeon on generics, starting every 12 minutes. Give the players 2 weapons, 1 armor, and 1 random for their class.

Consider giving Nightmare groups a party DM, that travels through the dungeon with them.

In short, this is a bad idea. You will get support here, but we are less than 1% of the people that actually play through TD.

Any opportunity to break the space-time continuum is a good one!

I respect Darkangel's thoughts however I disagree.

If Jeff wants to reward players that buy at a certain level or above with something other than tokens I think it is fine. It is a reward not unlike the Bag Check. It has nothing to do with tokens but is a way of Jeff being able to say thank you to those can afford at that level. Token sales really really help drive True Dungeon's Dungeons. Without the folks that spend oodles and oodles of money we wouldn't have some of the cool props and scenery we have. So if Jeff wants to thank them in another way it is fine by me. They are PART of the reason TD has been able to grow like it has. We should all thank them, just like thanking Jeff, volunteers and everyone that helps contribute to the growth and success of True Dungeon.

If there was a TD run that cost 2k per person to go on would resent the people that could go on it? Since there are folks that cannot afford a $44 per person run do they get to resent you and I for being able to go on it?

I agree whole heatedly with everything Darkangel said (though I do also think big time buyers deserve our thanks and should be rewarded).

jedibcg wrote:
If there was a TD run that cost 2k per person to go on would resent the people that could go on it? Since there are folks that cannot afford a $44 per person run do they get to resent you and I for being able to go on it?

... Yes?