TOPIC: Feedback Needed on Relic/Legend Event Idea

Jeff,
Can you give us a preview/example of what the cost/requirements would be to create this new item?

Thanks!

Jeff - this sounds like a great idea. Very exciting. My big question like others have mentioned is how much will it take to make the Gate and then how will it work (1 year or forever).

I like the ideas others have mentioned making it a resticted generic ticket event run. But I would add maybe some sort of "off-line scheduling" on the forums so people would know for sure when they would be running and could plan accordingly. Maybe when you send the gate token you could send a list of the avialble slots and how to get one.

What about some sort of 5 token special gear pack that would be given at the beginning of the "adventure" it could contain some basic common/uncommon level gear that could have a flavor of the far plane and only usuable there, it could even have a different token back color..maybe blue? So your would have your awesome relics and legendaries, plus some basic weaps and armor that only apply to this event. And collectors and completist would want to have these too.

I also like the idea of some sort of token or rule that allows you to bring like one piece of non-relic level gear, maybe it could be an ultra-rare or relic itself. Like a special pouch or something.

Can't wait to hear more details and see if there is even a chance for me to make a gate.

Mike Steele wrote:

jedibcg wrote: My first question is what about those that equip a party of 10? I have currently 4 Girdles of Frost Giant. Would they all be soulforged to me? Do I choose whom they get soulforged to? Since I also buy all tickets for my group (often without any reimbursement) would I be able to buy these special slots for them?

I think the idea is awesome I just would like to know some more details.

Do you have to get a different Cubic Gate Relic for each year, or does the one Cubic Gate relic get you in the door each year? I can see pros and cons both ways.

Well...we could do it either way...maybe it would be best to make it so you need a new Cubic Gate every year. That would give us an exact count on how many people are eligible, and thus making planning much better.

Jeff Martin wrote: Maybe in 2014 we would just have a generic +3 Club that anyone could use and some +3 light armor that everyone but the Monk and Wizards could use. It is meant to be a token-lite event where a single token can have a big effect (like +3 Bracers).

This seems more doable. You really must watch out for too much power creep all at once. Any way I look at this I see bad idea written all over it if you get too many relics released all at once.

Maybe standard gear might be able to be bought from an extra planer merchant once you go through the gate with gold. Even extra planer gear with a different chip color might work. Items that cannot be used in regular True Dungeon.

jedibcg wrote: The cube could make the price of tokens go back up depending on what it takes. 1 of each Monster Trophy? Lots of Gold? How about some nice precious completion trophies. Ohhh and a volunteer trophy to show your commitment to TD (either be buying or volunteering). This could get real interesting. Or it could be really easy. Jeff the ball is in your court. I would wagger that everyone and their mother would want to do this event. It is just a question on who can afford it. Those that cannot will be upset and those that can might think the price is too high, but you will have those that will do whatever it takes to do more TD. You have a solid product that we want to buy.

It needs to be expensive, and if we go with the "need a new one every year model" then we don't have to allow for other Relics to be traded in for a Cubic Gate. My guess is that the Cubic Gate relic token needs to be fairly expensive (and a new one needed each year) to keep the numbers down and manageable -- and to hit the sweet spot of rewarding the big token buyers.

ian ferguson wrote: I would support this, but would add that maybe non-slotted items could get through, so a Bard might have an instrument, or Spellcasters might have scrolls. A Rogue could still bring hi/her tools as well I am pretty sure I would be nearly naked stepping through the gate, but that may make it that much more fun

I think we need to keep it simple and just say Relics, Legendaries and Eldritch items. It should be fun facing the dungeon without much in the way of gear...and it gives those items more coolness.

Jeff Martin wrote:

jedibcg wrote: The cube could make the price of tokens go back up depending on what it takes. 1 of each Monster Trophy? Lots of Gold? How about some nice precious completion trophies. Ohhh and a volunteer trophy to show your commitment to TD (either be buying or volunteering). This could get real interesting. Or it could be really easy. Jeff the ball is in your court. I would wagger that everyone and their mother would want to do this event. It is just a question on who can afford it. Those that cannot will be upset and those that can might think the price is too high, but you will have those that will do whatever it takes to do more TD. You have a solid product that we want to buy.

It needs to be expensive, and if we go with the "need a new one every year model" then we don't have to allow for other Relics to be traded in for a Cubic Gate. My guess is that the Cubic Gate relic token needs to be fairly expensive (and a new one needed each year) to keep the numbers down and manageable -- and to hit the sweet spot of rewarding the big token buyers.

Jeff if a new one is required each year, then maybe some sort of portability should be considered, in case people build a gate and then turn out not to be able to attend GENCON. For example, right now I 100% plan to attend every GENCON from now till I die, but what if I die or something else prevents me from attending in a year I build a gate in September of the previous year. Maybe just allowing it to be used in a future year as well, or maybe some sort of official transfer. I would just hate to spend all those resources and then not get to use it at all.

Another thought (from my son) is maybe allowing one option for making the next year's gate to be made using the previous years gate + some other costs. That way you can sort of roll your gate over each year with an additional cost, but not have to "pay full price each year" Just a thought.

kurtreznor wrote: this sounds really neat, and i would totally get in on it. BUT, are you sure you are ready to commit to doing this every year? i presume that this relic would be permanent, since you would be going to all the effort to get each persons name on it. which means this event will need to be run every year.

also, a thought on logistics: make sure to leave enough leeway in the cutoff time for shipping. since a lot of people will have to ship you the components to make this new item, you would probably be receiving them well into october. maybe you would have people fill out a form online/email to let you know the tokens were coming, but give them until december (or the token party at whosyercon) to get them to you (and you hold their relic until then).

We would probably make the Cubic Gate only good for one year -- since we need to know exactly how many people can potentially play.

And Sept. 30th would be the deadline since we need to get the artwork in at that time. And each of these tokens would be expensive to make, so we can't take IOUs for them. September 30th would be the deadline for the name on the token and the ingredients.

Jeff love this idea.

Ok thoughts,

On the surface I like the idea of a special reward for the big buyers but I'm not sure this is a good way to go at it.

Retro dungeon rooms would be way popular with mid level players so you might be missing a sales opportunity/cheesing off mid-listers who feel priced out by limiting those to large buyers only.

I agree with what other have said that any such event should not grant XP or its going to feel less like a reward to some and more like a requirement.

Id also be really hesitant about linking it to unique reward tokens as that just seems like it could be a lot of trouble. IMO the special even itself should be the focus of the reward rather then a means to acquire a reward.

Also a token lite event (limited by the number of relics in print) seems an odd way to reward token heavy buyers. Further it implies the need to create more relics quickly which leads to power creep and might cheese off people who suddenly find themselves with buyers remorse (remember the arguments over the power and price of the cloaks this year). Plus to many relics to quickly makes them seem less cool to me not more so.

Follow up question is the goal of the gate to reward large buyers (which again is a great idea) or to make relics seem cooler?

If the goal is to reward a specific population of buyers why even bother making them craft the gate, it could just as easily be a perk for buying at the 4k or 8k level.

If the goal is to make relics cooler wouldn't we be better off with something that would let players show them off to the general population? Maybe something like a relic sets that allow access to prestige classes, adventure specific situation that called them out like letting someone with a 30+ strength score (granted by relics) lift a gate in the dungeon and access an otherwise inaccesible branch of the dungeon. Everyone would see it that way but only relic powered groups could access it. I'm just spit balling at this point.


To the cubic gate/far travelers guild idea itself. I love the concept but I'm not sure it fits as a reward for the big time buyers.

Random thought, what about letting the gate access some kind of time travel function that allowed the purchase/crafting of currently unavailable future of past items. Blow a gate get a rod seg1 with your 1k order or a HOP as a PYP or maybe travel to the future and get start collecting your teeth of the cadaver while you transmute your boots of the 4 winds a few years sooner. Just a thought.

David Harris wrote: Another thought (from my son) is maybe allowing one option for making the next year's gate to be made using the previous years gate + some other costs. That way you can sort of roll your gate over each year with an additional cost, but not have to "pay full price each year" Just a thought.

I love this idea.

If, for example, the Cubic Gate token is "destroyed" in the process of opening the gate (thereby requiring a new one each year) it would be cool to have an alternate recipe which involves using a Cubic Gate, so someone unable to make it to GenCon on the year they soul-forged their gate would have a leg up on the next year's gate creation, or could sell their gate to someone else.

Also, just as a question: Is this the sort of event you could consider having at a Token Release party (either instead of, or in addition to, GenCon)? Many of the big buyers come to those events, and the events tend be much more low-stress, and haven't got the same time pressures as GenCon.

Philosophically, I like the idea. I've wanted to see some of the older "before my time" dungeons for quite awhile now, and would love to be one of the travelers.

Practically, as much as I'd love to I don't know if I could participate. It would necessarily be pretty expensive, as Jeff says, because the cost of running it would be spread over so few people. The cost of the Cube is one thing, but turning in tokens won't pay the bills. I can't imagine the tickets would be half the price of a regular one - more like some large multiple (and I don't dispute probably worth it).

And as an old guy, the "soul-forged" thing makes me nervous. If I were in my 20s I wouldn't even think about it. But if it's only for one year anyway I guess it's not that big a risk.

But I'm still tired and a little grumpy from going to work after such a fun weekend, so don't mind me.