TOPIC: Feedback Needed on Relic/Legend Event Idea

Kim Lindgren wrote: I agree with Raven that treasure draws should not be a part of the volunteer perks because it would be unequal.

Definitely agree. Tokenites and volunteers are two very different groups. However, both groups are absolutely needed to make True Dungeon what ut is!

quip wrote: Helm of the Boar would also go with the theme of the barbarian doing melee damage, with +2 damage and -4 to reflex saves, although as Jim mentioned, you would make the barbarian less of a high pick.

I like this idea. Finally someone came up with an idea that can be easily "themed". So, based upon all of the feedback I've read, I am proposing the following changes:

• Barbarian Theme changed from "all about strength" to "all about damage".
• Replace Barbarian's Necklace of the Oak with the Helm of the Boar
• Remove the Cadaver Charm and the Horn of Blasting from the general list
• Move the Defender Helm from the Paladin to the general list
• Replace the Defender Helm with the Defender Shield for the Paladin, and before anyone goes there, no I don't want to create the Defender set, LOL
• Add the Amulet of Thorns to the general list

The above changes removes all completeion tokens from the White Backed set, yet still accomplishes my main goals of filling in the gaps (what relics, etc. don't cover) and creates a well balanced party.

I still would prefer Jeff to make the decision on the two minor blue items.

Brad Mortensen wrote: Now here's something that just hit me. One of the Wizard tokens is a consunable. That strikes me as unfair, too. White tokens will be cool and some people will be asked to use theirs up. Why not a consumable for every class? Maybe runestones or ols for sliders. That, or wands can be used without punching and scrolls/potions can be used once per room without tossing them in the bucket.

This is one thing I struggled with. Originally I had a scroll and a potion in the general list. Jeff and I were talking about making the items 1 use per combat or 1 use per dungeon so that the player could keep the white token (otherwise I felt it wouold rarely be used). Jeff suggested that we (for the most part) stay away from these types of items. However, when I got to the wizards, I didn't find anything I liked and still met the criteria (fill in the gaps, stay away from URs, potions, and scrolls). So, that is why the wizards have wands. I chose a couple that more than likely won't be consumed (the wand of frost can only be used once per combat according to the token guide and I liked the semi-play on words of Melf's and Elf Wizard and it has 5 charges).

It is my hope that the wands will not be punched, oops the DM forgot to bring his or her hole punch, LOL!!

Jeff/Jim (I'm not sure who's putting the final list together), I'd recommend one of the tokens for each class be a weapon (maybe both of the tokens for the Ranger). You don't want to have to depend on the luck of your 8 random tokens or the possibility someone will trade with you to have a weapon to use on the run. The whole genesis of this was to make sure characters have basic weapons and armor, so it seems to be missing the boat to not make sure everyone at least has a weapon. I'd also avoid giving the Bard two different instruments, one instrument (hopefully Lyre of Echos) and a weapon would be better.

I'd also recommend none of the two "set" items for any of the classes be consumable, and none of them be high-dollar value. That should help equalize the classes so people aren't either fighting over one class or actively avoiding another.

Mike has a good point. There is only one melee weapon in the 16 random tokens. We have the Bard, Druid, Paladin, and both wizards (up to 6 characters) vying for melee weapons from the random tokens.

There is also only one armor in the random tokens, and there are 6 classes without armor as well (we will leave the monk out, since his armor is specialized). The bard and the druid have neither armor nor weapon.

But, if we add a weapon for each in place of one of their two items, we also decrease the theme flavor you have gone to some trouble to create.

I would recommend you have double the chance of getting the armor and the dagger (ie, print twice as many of those two tokens) compared to the other random items. That way, if you choose one of the weaponless classes (or armorless classes), you are being risky, but you have a 1 in 8 chance of getting each, rather than 1 in 16, so you're at least likely to get one or the other. I'd hate to see a Paladin without a weapon, though.

I'd probably lean towards the bard getting lyre of echos so they can cast or monster lore, as is part of their character of knowledge and support, as well as either one of the other instruments or the random armor (or chainmail of the vale).

Regarding the boots, I like that you left the choice for Jeff to go with a rare or blue. Personally, I prefer the boots of free action.

Regarding the eye slot, do we really have to fill that this year? There’s only the one red eye slot item, which is very limited in scope, with no green from which to choose. What if we put in the Violet Prism Ioun Stone instead? I like that this might be an incentive for someone to stretch for the $2k, everyone can use it, and I like the conundrum it creates in whether or not you use it.

I'm disappointed that this is going from a cool chance to showcase relics and recreate some old dungeons that some of us relatively newbies never saw before to haggling over which primo tokens we're going to make limited edition reprints of.

In my opinion the white-back tokens are distracting from what should be the coolest part of this reward. I honestly think we should scrap it and just come up with an approved list of whatever tokens we say can pass the gate. If you own one, you can bring it, and don't pass out anything except maybe a completion token at the end. Make it like True Grind; just about the experience, not the rewards. The rooms themselves are reward enough.

quip wrote:
Regarding the eye slot, do we really have to fill that this year? There’s only the one red eye slot item, which is very limited in scope, with no green from which to choose. What if we put in the Violet Prism Ioun Stone instead? I like that this might be an incentive for someone to stretch for the $2k, everyone can use it, and I like the conundrum it creates in whether or not you use it.

One thought is: if Jeff decides against the blue items, then I agree, the eye slot is pretty weak. We could replace it with another melee weapon, probably some type of staff.

Another thing to remember: a lot of the slots are going to be taken by big buyers (4K or greater). They will be getting a copy of every token and can and should bring them into the dungeon. This will ease the problem of randomness messing with party makeup.

Ya. It did seem to start out as something really spiffy and I was sort of disappointed I wouldn't get to participate and since that point it has sort of devolved into a quasi-douchey morass about general inconsequentials. But it seems to keep some people happy making lists for this sort of thing and after all, they have a stake in it since these are the tokens they'll be receiving in the end. It's like watching a negotiation between a company ceo and the head of a union. If you don't have a stake it it then it all just looks like a bunch of pointless bickering and micromanaging.

Brad Mortensen wrote: I'm disappointed that this is going from a cool chance to showcase relics and recreate some old dungeons that some of us relatively newbies never saw before to haggling over which primo tokens we're going to make limited edition reprints of.

In my opinion the white-back tokens are distracting from what should be the coolest part of this reward. I honestly think we should scrap it and just come up with an approved list of whatever tokens we say can pass the gate. If you own one, you can bring it, and don't pass out anything except maybe a completion token at the end. Make it like True Grind; just about the experience, not the rewards. The rooms themselves are reward enough.

I don't like the idea of just an approved list because it will do the same thing. We will argue about what should be on the list. What happens if you don't have the tokens on this approved list? It could be very likely from a first time buyer buying at the 2k or 4k level.

We also don't have much else to do until we can buy 2014 tokens (or give feedback on 2014 tokens) so we might as well discuss this.

I'm with Brad.

I don't like how this is turning out, with too many strong opinions for what is essentially a bonus. With so many strong opinions, there is a risk of creating more unhappiness than its worth. I think we should scrap the white token idea, and only allow in relics, etc.

jedibcg wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: I'm disappointed that this is going from a cool chance to showcase relics and recreate some old dungeons that some of us relatively newbies never saw before to haggling over which primo tokens we're going to make limited edition reprints of.

In my opinion the white-back tokens are distracting from what should be the coolest part of this reward. I honestly think we should scrap it and just come up with an approved list of whatever tokens we say can pass the gate. If you own one, you can bring it, and don't pass out anything except maybe a completion token at the end. Make it like True Grind; just about the experience, not the rewards. The rooms themselves are reward enough.

I don't like the idea of just an approved list because it will do the same thing. We will argue about what should be on the list. What happens if you don't have the tokens on this approved list? It could be very likely from a first time buyer buying at the 2k or 4k level.

We also don't have much else to do until we can buy 2014 tokens (or give feedback on 2014 tokens) so we might as well discuss this.

An earlier argument was that any relic-owners had copies of every token of note, so it didnt matter what was reprinted.

I think it is a great idea. It is very similar to an idea we discussed after a Synergy run. Please lets see some more.