TOPIC: Feedback Needed on Relic/Legend Event Idea

I think it would take a bit away from being special. I am not saying it shouldn't be done but it would not be as cool. So cost vs cool. I am not weighing in on either side because I don't know. Just presenting another view.

Sounds good. I too would caution against the oak and horn. I see the point of the amber ion but I was going to suggest that as a reprint for this year. If it doesn't go reprint then it shouldnt make the list.

Please consider the lyre of echoes for the bard.


One thing to think about is if this list is going to stay the same each year.

valetutto wrote: Sounds good. I too would caution against the oak and horn. I see the point of the amber ion but I was going to suggest that as a reprint for this year. If it doesn't go reprint then it shouldnt make the list.

Please consider the lyre of echoes for the bard.


One thing to think about is if this list is going to stay the same each year.

I agree the Lyre of Echos is perfect for the Bard, so he/she can take an action every other turn other than singing.

Hi Jeff,

I do have a couple of questions. First, you mention the set of 40 white-backed tokens is a bonus at the $4K level. Is the adventure entry still at the $2K level, or is that at the $4K level also? And, I'm assuming that any of the tokens from the set of 40 you get at the $4K level can be used in the adventure, right?

I do like the suggestion of having the tokens be wooden (maybe with silver ink) instead of white-backed, for a retro feel - but then I'm always up for printing new wooden tokens

Thanks,
Mike

Mike Steele wrote: I do like the suggestion of having the tokens be wooden (maybe with silver ink) instead of white-backed, for a retro feel - but then I'm always up for printing new wooden tokens

Thanks,
Mike

Now that would get me excited (especially if they had pictures like the artisans).

Would an 8K order get two sets of the White backs?

And I love it.

jedibcg wrote: Belt of Ogre Power or are you wanting to stay out of the belt because of the relic?

Exactly! (because of the relic)

Mike Steele wrote:

valetutto wrote: Sounds good. I too would caution against the oak and horn. I see the point of the amber ion but I was going to suggest that as a reprint for this year. If it doesn't go reprint then it shouldnt make the list.

Please consider the lyre of echoes for the bard.


One thing to think about is if this list is going to stay the same each year.

I agree the Lyre of Echos is perfect for the Bard, so he/she can take an action every other turn other than singing.

The Lyre of Echoes was seriously considered. In the end I chose the saving throw bonus because that lyre provided a completely different option for the Bard.

JimC wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

valetutto wrote: Sounds good. I too would caution against the oak and horn. I see the point of the amber ion but I was going to suggest that as a reprint for this year. If it doesn't go reprint then it shouldnt make the list.

Please consider the lyre of echoes for the bard.


One thing to think about is if this list is going to stay the same each year.

I agree the Lyre of Echos is perfect for the Bard, so he/she can take an action every other turn other than singing.

The Lyre of Echoes was seriously considered. In the end I chose the saving throw bonus because that lyre provided a completely different option for the Bard.

I'd still suggest switching to the Lyre of Echos. Otherwise the Bard will be stuck spending the entire combat singing, and won't have the opportunity for actions such as monster lore check, combat, spells, etc.

I'd also recommend against allowing Onyx or Platinum tokens as that would essentially allow people to completely outfit themselves like they normally do, and really take away from the Relic/Eldritch/Legendary aspect of the runs. In fact, I'd probably suggest making the white-backed tokens even less powerful, since they are really just place-holders until there are Relic and above tokens in those slots. Maybe go more with tokens like Chainmail, or a Long Sword, or a quarterstaff. Go with medium powered Rares and Uncommons, instead of the top Rares available for each class. That will make the jump to Relic and above more impressive

quip wrote: My suggestions would be:

Barbarian (all about strength):
+1 Maul: 2H, D8 (2,3,3,4,6,9,11,11), Barb, F, P
Gauntlets of Ogre Power
Ram Totem Armor (+4 AC, immune to Stun)

Bard (all about knowledge and support):
+1 Elven Rapier
Lyre of Echoes
Footman Chainmail

Cleric (all about piety):
+1 Silver Mace
Holy Symbol of Pelor: +2 damage while turning, C
Half Plate of Life (+7 AC, +2 max HP...chose this more for the name )

Druid (all about nature):
+1 Silver Scimitar
Druid’s Sacred Vestments: +2 to healing spell if correct leaf chosen, D
Greater Mistletoe: +1 damage to offensive spells, D
Owl Totem Armor (+3AC, +1 will saves)
I went with an extra common here for the armor, since the mistletoe and sacred vestments reflect the druid’s ability to heal and do damage

Dwarf Fighter (all about the steel):
+1 Dwarven Battle Axe: 1H, D8 (2,4,5,5,7,8,8,9),+3 damage to Giants, Barb, F, P, Rang
+1 Dwarven Throwing Hammer
Dwarven Half Plate: +7 AC, +2 Fort saves, C, F, P

Human Fighter (all about the steel):
+1 Silver Bastard Sword: 1H, D10 (3,3,4,5,6,7,7,7,10,11), Barb, F
+1 Light Trident
Fey Plate Armor: +7 AC, +2 Reflex saves, C, F, P

Monk (all about the martial arts)
+1 Bracer of the Dragonfist: 1H, D6 (2,3,5,5,7,7), In place of open hand attack, M
Bracer of the Smiting: 1H, D6 (1,2,4,4,6,6), critical on 19-20, In place of open hand attack, M
Two +1 Shuriken
Yes, that’s 4 tokens that are all rare. On the other hand, the monk has two for his pucks for ranged and melee, so he gets to do what monks do, and doesn’t get armor or a non-weapon. With this set-up, he also doesn't have relic or legendary mithral bracers.

Ranger (all about specialties):
Mighty Sling (I’d prefer to see a 2014 Mighty Longbow printed for the Ranger, though)
This could be replaced with a +1 Darkwood Longbow if people don’t like the above idea
+1 long sword
+1 short sword
Fox Totem Armor (+2AC, +2 reflex saves), 4th item is a common armor, since, IMHO, a ranger should have a ranged weapon, and 2 melee weapons

Rogue (all about sneakiness):
+1 Fey Blade: 1H, D6 (2,3,4,5,6,7), Barb, Bard, F, P, Rang, Rogue
Boots of Elvenkind: Allows sneak attack on 1st round of combat
Masterwork Thieves Tools
Elven Shortbow vs Fox Totem armor (+2 AC, +2 Reflex saves)(both commons)

Paladin (all about defense)
+1 Elven Long Sword
Tower Shield (+3 AC)
Plate Armor: +8 AC, C, F, P

Elf Wizard (all about the magic)
Robe of the Mage: +2AC, W
Boots of Free Action
Wand of Melf’s Acid Arrow: 8 points of Acid damage if AC15 is hir on combat board, 5 charges, W

Human Wizard (all about the magic)
Mage Robe of the Vale: +2AC, W
Hat of Escape
Wand of Frost: 7 points of cold damage, no save, 1/combat, 4 charges, W

Thoughts?

The reason something like this wasn't done was due to limiting the costs of these tokens. Orginally it was one class specific token and a pool of 10-20 shared tokens. We settled on 2 per class and another 16 to round out the characters. The shared pool is designed such that each character (with a little trading) will be fairly well outfitted (I concentrated on filling in the large gaps created by our current relics and making sure characters that have restrictive requirements for weapons and armor (e.g., the cleric has a blunt weapon, and the mages have robes) are taken care of. As far as I know, plans are for the tokens to change over time, especially consindering new relics will be introduced.

I am having a little difficulty with some of the people complaining about the reprinting of a few (but well suited) tokens like the Necklace of the Oak or the Torc of Natural Armor. Especially considering the main argument seems to be it will affect the RESALE price.

Please consider the target audience. Most of those that will qualify for this perk, already have many of these tokens and most have quite a few of them, I know I do. It seems to me, that this is a great way to get people who don't have these tokens a way to get them (a 4K order guarantees them a copy of each token and spurs token sales). For those that can't afford 4K, more supply means that more will have access at a cheaper price.

Another topic:
There are two options in the general tokens. There is a minor combo item and an alternative. I think that the combo token is better suited for the overall party makeup, but I included the second option as an alternative for Jeff if he decides not to include "Blue" tokens. (The original request was for red and green tokens, but I pushed the envelope slightly, LOL!). If the two blue tokens are an issue, I can support the alternative.

JimC wrote: I am having a little difficulty with some of the people complaining about the reprinting of a few (but well suited) tokens like the Necklace of the Oak or the Torc of Natural Armor. Especially considering the main argument seems to be it will affect the RESALE price.

Please consider the target audience. Most of those that will qualify for this perk, already have many of these tokens and most have quite a few of them, I know I do. It seems to me, that this is a great way to get people who don't have these tokens a way to get them (a 4K order guarantees them a copy of each token and spurs token sales). For those that can't afford 4K, more supply means that more will have access at a cheaper price.

Another topic:
There are two options in the general tokens. There is a minor combo item and an alternative. I think that the combo token is better suited for the overall party makeup, but I included the second option as an alternative for Jeff if he decides not to include "Blue" tokens. (The original request was for red and green tokens, but I pushed the envelope slightly, LOL!). If the two blue tokens are an issue, I can support the alternative.

Jim, I think the core of the complaints against using something like the Necklace of the Oak is that it is a pretty rare token that could only be gotten (I believe) by using the Amulet of Wonder on an earlier Dungeon. If you give one away for every $4K in orders plus a bunch on these runs, you're looking at flooding the market with this (and other) tokens which previously could only be gotten as reward tokens. And there is no need to do so, there are plenty of Rare and Uncommon tokens suitable for each class that would work just fine for this purpose. And to me, the purpose of the White-backed tokens (or the very unlikely silver ink wooden tokens) is to fill the slot with some token so that everyone has at least an armor and weapon and some basic gear, not to pick the best or most powerful Rare/Combo/Participation token for each slot. I'd actually prefer that the white-backed tokens be fairly weak in power level, to really emphasize the relic/eldritch/legendary aspect of the Dungeon.

I'm assuming, from Jeff's post, that you came up with the original listing, but Jeff is inviting comments from the rest of the community so that he can decide how to proceed on this. So, everyone is just giving their thoughts to Jeff on the subject, so he can weigh them and make the final decision. As is the case with almost every subject in True Dungeon, there are lots of varied opinions for Jeff to consider